Guys as I have been saying in numerous threads, India is unstable. It has developed into a cauldron of hate and intolerance. Basically its another Gujrat type pogrom away from a slide into civil war. Here is a respectable independent source that warns of the same situation. Hope it doesnt happen, but Pakistani planners should not be caught unawares or flat footed if it happens.

Trouble looms for India: Jane’s Weekly
- By Our Special Correspondent

http://www.asianage.com/

New Delhi, Dec. 18: Jane’s Defence Weekly, in its Foreign Report, has issued a strong warning predicting chaos in India after the victory of the "Hindu nationalists in Gujarat." "This is a disaster waiting to happen.

India’s secular society and its future security are at stake. Foreign Report issues a warning," it states.

The Foreign Report, prepared by the prestigious Jane’s Defence Weekly under the headline "Serious Trouble Looms for India," has predicted an "apocalyptic situation" for the country if the "Hindu nationalists" continue with the aggressive anti-Muslim campaign in the forthcoming state elections and the 2004 general elections.

Mincing no words, the Jane’s report credits an "anti-Muslim hate campaign" with ensuring the return of the BJP with a two-third majority in Gujarat. Pointing out that the World Hindu Council VHP has "talked chillingly of a final settlement of the Muslim problem after Gujarat’s riots earlier this year," the report adds that this "had frightening echoes of ethnic cleansing in other parts of the world." It quotes VHP leader Praveen Togadia as saying, "The Muslims have to be taught a lesson."

Quoting state security officers, the report says that "by preying on sectarian tensions, the Hindu nationalist Prime Minister, Atal Behari Vajpayee, and his BJP-led coalition are bound to give rise to hundreds, if not thousands, of potential Muslim rebels. Law enforcement officers may be unable to contain them." It states that the BJP won 126 seats in Gujarat "following the pogrom of Muslims across the state in which more than 1,000 people died."

The Jane’s report, going on to describe chief minister Narendra Modi as the "BJP’s new folk hero," questions his election assurances of protecting Gujarat’s 50 million people from Pakistan and radical Muslim militants. "Hardly!" the journal observes, going on to point out that high school text books in Mr Modi’s administration "declare that Hitler lent dignity and prestige to the German government by establishing a strong administrative set-up." Stating that this Class 10 social studies book is compulsory reading for 15-year-olds in Gujarat, the Foreign Report goes on to reproduce another quote crediting Hitler for having "adopted a policy of opposition towards the Jewish people and advocated supremacy of the German race."

Dwelling on this, the report goes on to speak of Shiv Sena leader Bal Thackeray for having advocated Hindu suicide squads to fight Muslim terrorists. Describing him as a close ally of the federal coalition, the Jane’s document points out that he "openly admires Hitler" and has offered to help wipe out trouble-making Muslims and to kick out some 40 million economic refugees from Bangladesh.

The Foreign Report is not particularly enamoured of the BJP coalition’s achievements. It states, "Having no notable legislative achievement about which he can boast, Vajpayee is likely to use religious jingoism to gain votes. Some BJP leaders admit that the election in Gujarat was a test of religion-based political campaign techniques." It adds, "It worked, Now the Gujarat experiment will be applied throughout India." It again quotes Mr Togadia as saying, "India will become a Hindu Republic in two years."

well..y cudnt i see the original article in JDW ?? :ermm

QQQB....

maybe it is outdated...
maybe it is false...
maybe it is about Pakistan...
Maybe...
maybe...

Some of the Indians on this board are that blind... But the world press will come up with these articles... :)

Bye QQQB...

i reckon one day this Modi, now that he's a folk hero, could become a serious contender for the top slot in the BJP party and in return a future PM of india.

that would be fun! :((

i would say bal thackeray for PM, modi for dep. PM, and VHP and Bajrang Dal guys for President and interior minsitry slot would be a perfect indian dream team. :)

I do not think that we should be happy about an unstable India. Just see the cost of an unstable Afghanistan on Pakistan. India would cause 10 times more refugees, violence, etc. Plus the greatest loosers would be the Indian muslims who would be slaughtered in their millions. Instead, I wish for a stable India that realizes that it is not heir to the British Raj and that realizes that it has no right to occupy Kashmir.

A very serious situation indeed. Please compare how Hitler and the Nazi Party were ignored by the World. By the time any action was taken, Jews and Gypsies were virtually eliminated already.

All those people allying with BJP, etc. should know that hate mongers are evil and in the long run they will hurt us all, without any exception. Just makes me hate these politicians even more. Everything is fair for them to gain power and glory.

What is so different about these people as compared to UBL? He also seeks glory no matter what the cost and how much suffering it causes.

let them try. The indian muslims will react with tremendous violence and the BJP will have no support from the southern states or the eastern states. The muslims own Hyderabad and Bangalore as well as many majority areas in the north. The indians better not elect these lunatics or they will be under muslim rule again. India is a ##### that the brits created, maybe they will come back to undo it.

Perhaps similar in idealogy of hate, but very big difference is Al-Qaeda could not win popular elections even if they tried to. First of all, there is no wide support for such people, thats why these groups remain fringe, shadowy, and dont even bother going for popular support in Muslim countries. The other thing is pretty soon they get outlawed and banned!

Typical Lashkar philosophy. Get muslims to rule India, make it an islamic state. If India is a #####, Pakistan is a bigger #####!!!

Are you sure about that? Afterall did't the Al Queda/Taleban supporter win election in Baluchistan and NWFP and now ruling these two states.

I hear they banned kite flying and music, does this sound familier to you?

Watch out Talebaniation of Pakistan is well under way!

:XNuke

You are bann from my forums mdbao

AlQaida/Taleban won elections in Pakistan? Thats news to me.

Getting desperate when the fascist face of India is exposed, eh liespinner? :alien:

you will be surprise to find this out that people like Mdbao and other mullah kids think that MMA victory in NWFP is Talibans and ali-qaida's victory.

MMA victory has to do with the fact that those areas of Pakistan share tribal, lingual, and cultural bonds with the Pashtuns in Afghanistan and the popular perception that USA declared war against them. Jamat Islami the largest component of MMA by far, does not and never did support AlQaeda. Also MMA includes Shia parties, not very affectionate with Taliban are they??

there isnt going to be any talibanisation of Pakistan, i mean just look at musharafs policy, when we started to support the US against afghanistan, all those mullahs began to protest, but he let them and pretty soon they were out of steam, the indians kept on threatning to attack us, and it would creat econonomical problems for us every time they threatend(foreign investments) but later on musharaf just said do whatever u want but we will fight baq(basicly told em do whatever the fuq u want bla bla bla) they never did and they were out of steam too, and about the mullahs getting more votes and stuff, i personaly think it was rigged, and they will keep on trying to pass these sensless laws but will fail, and in bout 5 yrs hopefully theyll run out of steam aswell and the people of pakistan wouldnt want them anymore thus ending the extremist element in our country.

If you had known the demography of India you would have known that there is only one state in India with a muslim majority which is J & K. And even in J & K it is only the 8000 Sq. Km Valley which comprises the 5 small northern districts which are muslim majority. Jammu and Ladakh are non-muslim majority.

Who told you that Mulsims own Hydearbad and Bangalore? If you are saying this based on the demography agian you are wrong. Hyderabad has muslim majority only in the old city area. The new hyderabad is not. If you take the total hydearbad population around 40 % of the city is muslim.

In Bangalore the population of muslims are only 22 %.

There is no state in India where muslims are concentrated. The 12.4% of the 1 billion Indian population is distributed throughout India and in no place can a civil war happen and even if it happens will be doomed and millions of innocents will be killed without attaining any objectives.

I dont understand what you mean by saying that India will be under muslim rule again. When we are saying that theocratic governments and religious parties are wrong including VHP and their likes, arent you being the same hypocrite who wants to see another theocratic regime like the ones we had in India for hundreds of years which ruled the majority non-muslims by force and oprression. So then what is the difference between you and the hindu fundamentalists except being on the opposite sides of the same coin.

The majority of the Indian muslim population lives in cities where the density of population is very high. These parts of the cities are entirely muslim dominated. But to even start a civil war that is not enough. For that the muslim population should be substantial with respect to the total population of a state, which is not present anywhere in India save J & K.

MMA or Jamat Islami cannot be compared to what BJP is.
BJP is hand-in-glove, intimate with hate based fascist parties like RSS, VHP, Bajrang Dal, etc. As a matter of fact BJP sprung up from these parties, as their political vote seeking wing.

It depends on how you judge them. If you are a muslim you will have a sympathy for them as atleast they are trying to bring the Islamic rules in your country. Whatever reasoning you say, that sympathy will be there, even if you dont support them openly.

It is the same case in India. BJP promises to the Hindu, Jain, Sikh and Buddhist people that it wants to bring a society where these people are not persecuted like in the medieval ages. They give examples of the ancestors of the present day generation who were killed, raped, their houses and places of worship destroyed etc, to create awareness in them about what talibanization can do to India. Now these thimgs are clearly recorded in books like Babar nama.

So hatred begets hatred.

Why do you think BJP and its sister organizations doesnt have much hold in the south and north-east. It is simple. These places had never cases of destruction of temples or other brutalities from any muslim kings and where relatively peaceful. BJP cannot incite the people in these areas about the genocide by some kings and get votes.

Rajeev, I have a strong suspicion Hindus live in a delusional world! Look the past is replete with battles fought, an example was Prithviraj who first attacked Ghauri, and defeated him. Then Ghauri attacked Prithvi and defeated him, and took over his Kingdom. So what does the distant past actions of Kings hundreds of years ago, whether true or made up, have to do with the present?? Do hindus think they are still battling with past Kings by killing women and children in the present? So you pretty much elaborated on what I meant by BJP as being hate based.

I do not support any political party because all are decietful people and narrow minded but whoever does good for the welfare of all its citizens devoid of any difference are apprecitable.

What you told is true. BJP is a party which incites hate to come to power. But the first hate they use is the hate against Pakistan and then the hate against Pakistan loving Indian muslims. They are wrong and such crappy ideologies are not fit for our times or for that matter any times.

Also in medieval times, kings killed kings and occupied kingdoms and we should forget those things and move on with our future. But it was only some kings who destroyed places of worships and killed people becuase they were kafirs in their eyes. When only greed for money and lands are there kings kill other kings and occupy their lands and this goes on vice-versa.

But when you mix this with religion and God it becomes a very dangerous inflammable mixture. Kafirs will be killed, women folk raped or kept as concubines in harems, war booty will be distributed according to the religious laws, places of worship of the kafirs will be destroyed and books will be written as to hoy many civilian kafirs were beheaded and how many idols in temples destroyed etc.

That is why although the hate for the britishers who ruled the Indain sub continent for more than 200 years are subsiding this is not. Britishers were greedy people. They wanted our services, minerals and other resources, but they never destroyed any places of worship, raped or killed anyone just because someone was a muslim or a hindu. They were too clever. They used the divide and rule policy where they made the muslims kill hindus and vice versa.

But at the end an ordinary man in India or Pakistan doesnt remember Britishers as so much evil as the medieval kings and their religious clergies.

You are mentioning old history of the kings who did whatever they could to strengthen themselves and extend their rule. What has it got to do with the present day Muslims in the sub-continent? You got this line from RSS propaganda.

You suppose that the Aryans, the race of Brahmins, when they came to India, no one was there in India? Did they not push the locals to the East and South? Did they not introduce the Cast System and as long as they live they became the Third Class Citizens?

If we keep going back in history like this and justify our actions according to it then Hitler was also right because Allied during WW I did so many bad things to Germany but was it the fault of the Jews during WW II? Were they not scapegoated? Mentioning history like this tells me that you are very much interested in ethnic cleansing. Like Zionists of Israel who say that they have the oldest lease in the World. This lease was given to them by their prophets. They have come back to this land after more than 2000 years. All the locals have to leave since history is with them. How funny.

The ethnic cleansing in Yugoslavia was on these lines too. Hundreds of years ago there was a Muslim king who did some bad things to them so it now permits them to gang rape the Muslim women. How pathetic is your argument and reasoning.

How did these Muslim kings help any of the local Muslims? If there was a Muslim farmer in the North West, did he receive any stipends or land from these Muslim kings? Only those people benefited who cooperated with these kings and they included non-Muslims too. Just like during the time of British Rule, Muslims and Non-Muslims cooperated with British to extend their rule in the sub-continent. Punishing all Muslims for the sins of these kings is pathetic. Our religion does not allow the destruction of holy places of any religion.

Saeedkhan,

I dont agree with any atrocities commited by these people. I state that they are wrong again. What I meant was that BJP uses these methods to incite the people just like the MMA used these to incite people against USA and US supporting Mosharraf. They are wrong.

Illiteracy and poverty can create wonders when it has the correct temperature and pressure. I just explained how the correct temperature and pressure is obtained for a religious party to grow.

I think the only person delusional here is you!

You don't even know the Prithviraj never attacked Ghauri. Prithviraj was king at Delhi, Ghauri was a Afghan warlord.

When did Prithviraj attack Afghanistan?

Ghauri came all the way from Afghanistan, fought a battle with Prithviraj on Indian territory what is also known as the "battle of Tarrai". He lost and went back to Afghanistan.

Then he came back after a few years with a much bigger army and again fought a war with him in the same place. This time he won.

Thanks Rajeev. If this is what you meant then I fully agree with you brother. Fanaticism in any country and of any religion is bad for all of us. Some people love to play God and we should all join together to cut them down to their proper size.

Firstly, you need to get your facts straight. Aryans are NOT brahmins. Hinduism started after some aryans came to India and began to start this new religion. Dravidians were the original natives of the subcontinent, and they were not pushed down south because they were already living there! Secondly they converted to hinduism because it appealed to them!!!



Are you implying that hinduism allows the destruction of temples????

Ghaurii had taken many areas of present day Pakistan, and established control. These areas were not in Prithvi's Kingdom. Prithvi in Delhi got nervous over Ghauris rise to power, collected a large army and attacked Ghauri's forces in present day Pakistan. Probably to the delight of Ghauri, even though he lost, as he now could retaliate and move forward which he did. But Ghauri never attacked Prithvi first. Facts are facts.

Rahul you are the only one who needs a crash course on history. I am sure u learned all your history from those BJP fanatics who tell fake tales of great indian Empire and how they were kind to locals and #### like that.

But nobody belives your fake tales, do you know anything about indus valley civilization? were they living in southern india or sindh in northeren india where mohenjodarho is? were they not thriving 5000 years ago untill the aryans first came and distroyed their cities and pushed them south? Wasnt the cast system created by the aryan masters? Do u think that the locals were hindus already?

And if u dispute these facts then i will suggest u argue with any western historian or archelogist since it was them not muslims who brought the proof of ancient indus valley civilization and how it was destryoed by the invading aryans. Admit it, their is nothing in your history which is very well documented and everything they tell you is not more than just a myth or a fairytale. All the claims of great indian empire and atrocities by muslim kings have nomore credibility than the claim of bhagwans and Gods in your fairy tales.

And yes Sikhs used our mosques for keeping their horses including the badshai mosque in Lahore during the brief time they were in power. That is what u and your sister religion did when they were in power for only a breif time during the past 800 years.

ilyas, south india (Tamil Nadu) came under invading north indian muslim rulers only once and only for a biref moment of time...but other muslim rulers nizam (H'bad) haidar and Tippu(Mysore) were ruling...they are not moghuls!!

rahul0072002, please teach me, I am an illiterate. You sit on a pedestal under a Banyan tree and enlighten me.

You are contradicting yourself in your statement. Aryans came to India and started a new religion called Hinduism. Yes they sure did and they were light skinned as compared to the locals and to protect their racial purity they started the caste system and appointed themselves to be the top cast called Brahmins.

Shudras converted to Hinduism? They sure did. They loved to clean your toilets and do the dirty work, right? They dare not even hear Geeta or liquid lead was poured into their ears. They sure love such a religion that permanently assigned them to the grade of third class citizenship. Now don't tell me that there are some token ministers here and there. So what? I am talking about Hinduism and not on-paper secularism of India.

Hinduism is not a religion. Get your facts straight too. The definition of a religion is One God, One Prophet, and One Scripture. Hinduism is a dogma by the definition of Encyclopedia. Which means that as people came from the West and whatever believes they brought with them, Hinduism kept adopting and changing accordingly. There is no such thing as a uniform Hinduism. Go from one village to another in India and they are worshipping different idols or objects. The variation in Hinduism is almost same as the variation in the languages through the landscape of India.

Shudras or Dravidians were not pushed to the South or East? Then why the height, skin color and racial change do occur as we move in the sub-continent from West to East, or North to South. You did push these Shudras to a level lower than the most humble animals and exploited them even worse. I hope they get educated soon and wake up. They surely deserve much better treatment than this. This is another revolution waiting to happen in India. This is only a matter of time for them to wake up and deal with these RSS/BJP fanatics.

What your religion says is your business. As far as I know, Advani got the Babri Mosque destroyed to gain his popularity amongst goons of his sort. There is no scientific evidence that your Lord Ram was born at this site. It was all done by him to win the elections and through the kickbacks, change the fortune of his whole family for many generations to come.

Indeed very sad times seem to b commencing. Wot i have been reading in world media, according to that BJP seems to have two choices;

[B]1. Repeat the lessons it has learnt from Gujrat throughout india and win 2004 elections on Hindu vote. Or
2. Risk losing[B].

Although various indian analysts which consider the recent developments as 'grave for indian secularism' dont seem to think that BJP would conduct further such experiments. If analysts turn out to b correct BJP would definitely risk losing, and considering the number of moderates in BJP and hawks, i think doves like vajpayee would certainly have very very hard times. Plus if one brings organisations like VHP/RSS etc and their vote bank into consideration, that would also make moderates' lives more difficult.
Also one has to look at the words of vajpayee in which he said that Gujarat victory is the beginning of the BJP's march toward victory in the assembly elections next year and the Lok Sabha (lower house) polls in 2004. "We want to take inspiration from this and prepare for upcoming elections in other states."

Now does BJP have any other realistic choices. I say yes. They can for example creat further problems on the border with pak and less likely with Bengladesh. Limited strikes in AJK...and by limited i mean limited; i means aerial strikes and go back...no ground troops etc, which would make it less likely for pak to launch a full scale war on western border. Another option is furhter nuclear test. Yet, wot ever BJP does in order to try to win elections would bring chaos (to ceratin extent) hampering their economic growth.

The best thing for pak would b to sit out, b ready for any indian adventures and dont make any stupid moves. Let them do wot they want. I personally have always had the view that BJP and her allies (if allowed to carry on) would become more and more nazi like and b more destructive to their own country than any foreign influence.
Only take the following few examples;
...high school text books in Mr Modi’s administration "declare that Hitler lent dignity and prestige to the German government by establishing a strong administrative set-up." Stating that this Class 10 social studies book is compulsory reading for 15-year-olds in Gujarat, the Foreign Report goes on to reproduce another quote crediting Hitler for having "adopted a policy of opposition towards the Jewish people and advocated supremacy of the German race."
...Describing him (bal thackrey) as a close ally of the federal coalition, the Jane’s document points out that he "openly admires Hitler" and has offered to help wipe out trouble-making Muslims and to kick out some 40 million economic refugees from Bangladesh.

Yet the whole scenario is rather scary since nazis in germany not only destroyed themselves but also the whole europe...and anything happening in a facist india would effect pak the most...Nuclear issue is also another scary issue.

People who want to read bit more about modi's influence in indian politics should read;
http://atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/DL17Df04.html
India Today recently profiled Modi as one of "a select group of politicians to be watched in the new millennium". He was described as "a formidable strategist with great organizational skills"....
In the face of this criticism, Modi's position was never seriously in doubt as he has support among senior leaders in the RSS. According to some reports, former BJP president Kushabhau Thakre, a senior RSS member, made it clear to the prime minister that Modi would have to be defended, even at the cost of the survival of the central government. The RSS, founded in the 1920s with a clear objective to make India a Hindu nation, functions as an ideological fountainhead to a whole host of hardline Hindu groups - including the BJP.

Nope, wrong again!
I suggest you read a history book instead of spreading your ignorance.

Ghauri fought Prithviraj Chauhan in the first battle of Tarain inside modern day Indian territory not inside Pakistan.

This place is close to Delhi.

When Gahuri lost the first battle of Tarain, he went back and came after 6 years (iirc) with a much bigger army and fought the 2nd battle of Tarain in the same place.

lifeisfun,
Dude what r u talking about? i was discussing aryans who came to india 4000-5000 years before muslims Duh!

Alright my bad georgraphy on the location of first battle. However, "after the fall of Ghaznavids, Ghauri had to face the resistance of the Rajputs. Prithvi Raj Chuhan ruler of Delhi also started to worry after rapid success of Ghauri and *decided to fight against Ghauri*. He made grand preparations and gathered a large army. According to famous historian, Ferishta, Prithvi Raj included 200,000 horses, 300 elephants in his army and *marched against the Ghauri chief*. "

So Prithvi did attack first. However this is academic, really pointless and obsolete on who attacked who. My main point was do Hindus think they are battling these Kings from centuries ago when they go on anti-Muslim riots and pogroms?

Buddhism says that after attaining nirvana or enlightenemnt the soul becomes free and the misery of life is over. But there is no God. There is no answer to the question of who is the master, who controls the soul, who is the creator and prserver of this world etc. Hinduism in the scriptural and philosophical path believes in the Brahman (not to be confused with brahmin, which is a caste made by power hungry men) and that he is the ultimate aim of a human being. Brahman in Sanksrit means the "One who is pervading the whole universe, the master and the abode".

So Hindus who follow their scriptures believe that God is one and omnipotent, who is eternal. We believe that through good actions or karma in this world, we finally go to our creator God or Brahman, from where there is no point of return and will be with him in eternal bliss.

The concept of rebirth is for sinners and others who do not realise the path of renunciation and materialism and continue to get tied to this earth. So in effect there is no permanent hell, although there are temporary punishments given by God, but you are given chances again and again to achieve perfection, which is to attain God through everlasting devotion to him.

Cultural hinduism is corrupted with man made Gods and Godesses, idol worship, polythiesm, human sacrifices etc which are essentially adpated from local myths and folklores, and pagan tribal concepts.

The holy Bhagavad Gita says that all people are equal to God. The last chapter has a verse whic specifically asks the believer to spread the gospel to all humanity devoid of differences. The people who created caste system created it for their advantage. The scriptures didnt assign anyone any particular caste but the men did that. To know what the Gita says about equality you have to read it yourself before commenting.

Our honorable President Shri A. P. J. Abdul Kalam likes the philosophy in the Gita. It is when vested interests like the Brahmin "caste" people do things against the philosophy of the Gita that people comment on it.

I think you will be interested to read the article in TIME with Nairendra Moodi's picture on the front page.
Oz

Saeed Khan,

It is surprising that the Hindus on this Forum have not even bothered to clarify some of the misconceptions about the Hindu Caste System. Even though I am a Buddhist I have lived with Hindus long enough to label your above statement as BALDERDASH.

However, I will try to explain a little bit about the Hindu Caste System - without purporting to be an Authority.

Hindus are divided into Four Castes i.e.

1. BRAHMIN : Priests. Powerful just like the Islamic Mullahs. Enough said.

2. KSHATRIYAS : Warriors. Soldiers at time of War. In time of Peace the Swords were Converted into Ploughshares and they looked after the land.

3. VASHIYA : Traders. Businessmen.

4. SHUDRAS : Artisans, Labourers, Farm Workers, Blacksmiths, Building Workers, Carpenters etc. You may call the Blue Collar Workers.

The Hindus like any other society had Social Rules as well as Religious rules.

1. Beef Eating : Definitely against the Religious Rules. Offenders would be Ostracized by the Hindu Society. Made OUTCASTES.

In Islam, in those times, a Muslim who ate Pork would be Killed.

2. Sodomy : As great a Sin as Beef Eating. The offenders would be Ostracized in Hindu Society. Made OUTCASTES.

In Islam they would be Killed.

3. Woman having Sex outside Marriage : Immediately Ostracised. Made OUTCASTES.

In Islam they would be Killed.

You may say that it would be better to kill the offender rather than perpetuate the offenders' errors for Generations to come.

The Hindus at that time must have thought otherwise. They may have thought that the fear of being made OUTCASTES would stop people from going against the Rules of Society.

Everybody is aware of the recent treatment meted to a Pakistani Muslim Woman for having a relationship outside marriage. In addition a girl who danced was KILLED.

I cannot complain as I do not belong to that society and whether these actions are Right or Wrong it is for that Society or for Pakistan to decide.

I hope I have cleared some mis-conceptions in the Pakistani Minds about Shudras as time and time again I read Pakistanis commenting about Shudras ‘’Cleaning Toilets’’

Now about the OUTCASTES : Since they had been Ostracized by society and made outcastes so these ‘’outcasted’’ had no jobs, trades etc. and to survive they must have agreed to carry out menial tasks.

In today’s society Hindus are known to eat Beef, Muslims are known to eat Pork and Drink Alcohol, Christians eat Red Meat on Fridays, Jews eat non-kosher foods blah blah blah. These instances are in respect of a microscopic Minority and these instances MUST NOT BE TAKEN AS A GENERAL RULE OR ACCUSATION.

Again Sodomy is grudgingly accepted. We even see Children born out of wedlock TOTALLY ACCEPTED in Society and even reaching High Administrative Posts. Young people living together without marriage – as Heterosexual couples or Gay Couples or even Lesbian Couples. You must have read the Article in the London Times about the Afghanistanis Men moving around with their ‘’Ashnas’’. You are also aware of the man in Lahore who used to abduct Boys and used them for his and other friends’ pleasures. He would then get rid of them in an Acid Bath or some such way.

As such today’s Society is much more freer.

For your information : The caste system in Hindus is gradually dying out. THANK GOD. This is especially so in Hotels and Restaurants in Big and Large cities. One does not know if the Cooks in these establishments are of High or Low Caste or even Out Castes. If you visit a Large Indian City you will find that the Majority of the Customers in Muslim Restaurants are Hindus. You will find Muslims eating in Hindu Restaurants.
You will even find this in most Indian Towns.

I will be the first one to agree that the scourge of ‘’Out Castes’’ is still prevalent in India but is these days maybe 25 per cent of what it was at the time of Independence.

I am sure that in due course of time it will be eradicated.

Rajeev,
Nice information and some of the thing u wrote r new to me and will surely help me understand hindusim better,

Ajgir,
U complain of muslim not knowing about hindusim and making comments but from your post it is clear that u dont have a clue about Islam but u didnt bother to refrain from making comments about islam too. U r guilty of the same crime u r accusing others off. I can write a lengthy reply explaining islam but i think it will be a waste since people like u will come up with the same kind of stereotyping on other thread despite whatever i wrote here. So if u r honest and if u r interested in knowing the reality, do research on islam your self and specialy look for islamic laws and undrer what conditions they are applicable.

HEY GUYS. WHAT A F****ing discussion. U guys talk like kids. Trying to break each other apart. Use brains for Peace. Wouldn't it be better that we both countries become prosperous for the mutual good for our people rather than the guys ruling our countries.

Yeah Dude! :unsure: Please bring some mature discussion on this thread if u feel that we are all kids. Also why dont u try starting a thread about how india and pakistan should live peacefuly and also one about things we share with india, lets see how many people will reply to your thread.

Ajgir, I will give you the benefit of the doubt and say you are not only clueless on Islam (no one is put to death for eating pork) but also on many aspects of original Hindu scriptures and practises.

Ajgir, I personally don’t care what your religion says as long as it does not bother minorities in the sub-continent. It is God given right of yours to choose whatever religion or faith you want. The topic of this thread simply is the effects of RSS/BJP hate policies in the sub-continent. You may start other threads if you want to discuss it further.

Just don’t come running to this forum and claim that RSS/BJP policies of hate are not going to affect us. Please don’t tell us that every time a Shudra child is born, he or she is jumping up and down with ecstasy that their assigned task for the rest of their lives is going to clean with their bare hands the excreta of the Massa Brahmin. Since birth they are told that they are in this state due to their Karma in the previous lives and they have to stay there. If they try to change their religion then all sorts of pressures are put on them to keep them at the same level.

As people become more educated, they are not going to accept this pre-destiny verdict assigned to them. If the same is practiced in Pakistan, then it has to go too. No question about it. I never claimed that we are above the law. If what is practiced is against our religions then not only we are violating human rights but also the divine laws.

I am talking about human rights and not religion. What you practice at home is your business. Just don’t bring it to the work place. If we talk about our religions then obviously you are not going agree with what Islam says. If you did then you would be a Muslim.

The point is, as the article points out India could be heading for a potential apocalyptic civil war if it continues its current trend. The ruling BJP and allied parties, have a blood lust. Their hatred extends to all Muslims, whether in India or Pakistan. Attacking Pakistan or killing minorities in India is one and the same to them. They prefer to attack Pakistan, but due to nukes that came to nought. However their lust has not been quenched. Since they backed off from attacking Pakistan, I think there is a good chance they will take out this lust on minorities in India. Now if it happens how will that impact Pakistan? Millions of refugees pouring in? Will Pakistan stand aside, stay aloof, or get involved? Any way I see it, it puts Pakistan in a difficult position. From the mad perspective of BJP, its what they want as well.

This is for the idiots who keep on talking about "shudras"in India-there is 30-40%reservation in the jobs for people from these castes.Indias former President was a "shudra" aswell.I personally know so many guys from this caste that are working as Airline Pilots,Senior Police Officers and in the Indian Administrative Services which is considered to be an elite Govt.job in India.

These people get grants from the govt.,they have seats reserved for them in the universities and thanthey have reservation in the jobs.I wonder what Pakistan has got to offer to its minorities-zip.

Indians were clever enough to take you guys off-topic, they do this all the time and you guys fall for it...
Indian PM Desai used to drink his own pee, also som hindus dink Cow's Urine... dont talk about Hinduism..
get back to the damn topic, dont talk history.

dagar:

Are you sure about the %, I thouht it was more like 22%.
However, India still has a good affirmative action plan for its minorities.

dagar, you want us to believe 30%-40% lies? Let us suppose that it is true. Good work. Now one more thing, what about reserving jobs and seats in the Lower and Upper House for Muslims too. After all Indians are so considerate, do the same for the rest of the minorities too. Specially share the power with them in proportion to their population, at least. Then you will see whether your RSS/BJP survives or not.

India will become a true democracy with proper representation of people in proportion to their population. Brahmins are not sharing power. Token gestures are just that, Bollywood gimmicks. If you were that considerate, do you know how many Muslims live in the sub-continent? Almost half a billion. There won’t have been any need for Pakistan. We all would have been sharing power and living together.

"Phrozen Flame"why dont you read about Hinduism before making such stupid statements.Would you want me to say that Islam preaches honor killings,gang rapes,terrorism etc.

"Saeed Khan"I dont have to prove jack to you.And we can create reservation for muslims if you guys are willing to merge Pakistan back into India.

Now that is the real face of Mr. dagar. Keep on dreaming since we already know the results. :lol: