There only fault is that they refused to worship the gods of hindus, they are terrorist people because they are muslims and thier religion is catagorized as Terrorist and they are being burned for being terrorist. They have no right to defend themselves, they must die quitly or convert to hinduism and gain the possition of being Dalits and serve hindu for life to become berahmin in next life. this is the only way for solvation . :smile:

this Mob is not a terrorist, they are Democratic people, they are majority and they have every right to what they have done above. they are avanging the somnath and in better way because these muslims has nothing to defend, what would be greater than this that they must eliminate every single of these terrorist muslims. look how success full and smart those hindus are, it took 17 raids for mahmud of ghazna to conquer somnath and hidus just took the revange in single attack.. we all must admit that hindus are only mightiest nation living on the face of earth :smile:

Plz dont attack on hindus gods, thats thier personal belief, just like that mob in the picture. remembers its a democracy the mojority wins

very true, my apologies

Sad.

seems too straight forward. wat exactly happened???

This is disgusting... and they call themselves a democracy
May Allah Help all those Muslims who suffer in India, and around the world. Aameen.

Aameen

btw,

Isn't hinduism sort of like the greek gods, where there are main gods and each area has its own, just like during the Prophet (SAWS) time when in the Kimla there we idols from all the areas of Arabia

considering the disunity of belief among the tribes of arabia, and city states of greece, isn't the same with the areas of india, and hence hinduism isn't really a unified religion like the three monteistic religions of th world, but more akin to the greeks and ancient arabians

Yaar mere doosto

whenever i read news like this my blood skyrockets to the boiling point immediately

The hindus are such a .........................................


well how can we overcome this trouble who have something to share please discuss


Personally I really hate hindus very much
look at those hindus in Leicestershire in England very bad people but so called modernized hindus.

I have a lot to say about this but i sometimes feel that there is nothing to be so much explained as nothing is to be happen anyway

we people always read news just like watching a movie in cinema but virtually we cannot do anything to help those who are striving for life and peace..




Now i am so proud that at least we got freedom out of hindus in 1947.
Pakistan ka matlab kiya la ila ha ilalaa !

And the "worlds largest democracy (hypocrisy ) ensured that not a single bastard who commited this barbaric act was hanged or even imprisoned!!!!!

And has someone witnessed Muslim crowds on killing rampage like the Hindus and Serbs and armed Jewish settlers???? Yet the Muslims are labelled as terrorists while Hindus belong to the peace loving religion.

"There only fault is that they refused to worship the gods of hindus, they are terrorist people because they are muslims and thier religion is catagorized as Terrorist and they are being burned for being terrorist. They have no right to defend themselves, they must die quitly or convert to hinduism and gain the possition of being Dalits and serve hindu for life to become berahmin in next life. this is the only way for solvation . :smile: "


LIES, LIES, AND MORE LIES.................AREN'T U ASHAMED OF YOURSELF PSYCHO FOR PRESENTING SUCH A TWIST TO A HORRIFYING, SHAMEFUL ACT, WHICH I HAVE CONDEMNED IN NO UNCERTAIN TERMS AS BEING SUCH! AREN'T U ASHAMED OF USING IT AS PROPAGANDA MATERIAL......

The riots had nothing to do with with muslims and their worship.................it started with the burning of 57 Hindus remember?

An inquiry should have been held and the guilty punished. Those who burned that compartment should have been punished severely. However, to the utter dismay of all Indians, the impotent Gujrat Govt showed it cowardice and watched mutely as BJP/RSS goons went on the rampage! There was absolutely no excuse for that!

Shameful..........pathetic..........I can't imagine how those who did what they did, sleep at night. I bet they don't have any peace............how can they........what they did was inhuman and to think that they thought they were, in some perverted manner, doing Hindus good.........

The pictures you displayed above were captured by the Indian Media and it was the Indian Media that reported what happened. Is not the Indian Media made up of Hindus. If we were all so cold blooded, as those goons were, why would we EXPOSE the dark side of the riots.................

The man in the first picture was known to all of India coz of the Indian Media........do you know what happened to him............the Bengal Govt rehabilitated him in Calcutta with the rest of his family!

So simple isn't it.................to rubbish a faith of 850 million!

It was truly disgusting...............Does it happen in India everyday though?

Yes all those Pics are a GREAT Lie
Sorry i forget that what that mob is doing is the only truth and those burned muslims are not human at all untill they convert to hinduism and every single muslims do that to live in sub continent. this is the only way hindus will accept those poor muslims and also those muslims should join hinduism as dalits or Shodras to find the solvation.

why are you getting mad Rudraksh, i am praising your great heros

what your hindu brothren are doing is right and they have the right too do it. because you country is a great democracy

so dont need to get mad about this

yes people what rudraksh said right, those pics of muslims are a LIE, they are pretending to be burn and those pics were taken during the darama series. but that hindu mob is for real.

those burned dead bodies of muslims are all make up and this is what rudraksh is trying to make you understand

[quote=ISI2003,Sep 24 2004, 10:01 PM]
Aameen

btw,

Isn't hinduism sort of like the greek gods, where there are main gods and each area has its own, just like during the Prophet (SAWS) time when in the Kimla there we idols from all the areas of Arabia

considering the disunity of belief among the tribes of arabia, and city states of greece, isn't the same with the areas of india, and hence hinduism isn't really a unified religion like the three monteistic religions of th world, but more akin to the greeks and ancient arabians
[right][snapback]526889[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

This might be helpful!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism
[right][snapback]524872[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

Don't put words into my mouth............the pics you posted are courtesy the Indian Media.

Its up to you to decide what you are doing is right or wrong.........using pics such as those as propaganda material isn't something I consider a noble act?

If you were using the pics as information, fine...........but you choose to give your own interpretation to it, which are so far fetched that Indian Muslims would laugh at it!

I think I got into your head....................with the other thread.............I didn't think about it before, but now it makes sense...........hence the desperation.

I ain't falling for it though. So, have a nice time using death as propaganda and use more smilies.........a very appropriate emotion to use on this thread I suppose!

[quote=Rudraksh,Sep 25 2004, 10:06 AM]
This might be helpful!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism
[right][snapback]524872[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
[right][snapback]527180[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
The Different Hindu Religions


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chapter 2
Myth of One Hindu Religion Exploded
by
Hadwa Dom

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



2.1 Monotheism, Polytheism and Pantheism

`Hinduism' as a term is such a confused jumble of different religions that there does not even exist a standard concept of God. It is sometimes incorrectly asserted that Hinduism is polytheism, but that is not correct. Pure Vaishnavism is monotheist, as are pure Shaktism and Shaivism. Atheism in the form of Sankhya Vedanta is also a part of Hinduism; indeed, this is one of the 6 astika (orthodox) schools of Brahmanism. Thus, Swami Dharma Anand Theertha has written :
"Frankly speaking, it is not possible to say definitely who is a Hindu and what is Hinduism. These questions have been considered again and again by eminent scholars, and so far no satisfactory answer has been given. Hinduism has within itself all types of religions such as theism, atheism, polytheism, Adwitism, Dwaitism, Saivism, Vaishnavism, and so forth. (emphasis added). It contains nature worship, ancestor worship, animal worship, idol worship, demon worship, symbol worship, self worship, and the highest god worship. Its conflicting philosophies will confound any ordinary person. From barbarious practices and dark superstitions, up to the most mystic rites and sublime philosophies, there is place for all gradations and varieties in Hinduism. Similarly, among the Hindu population are found half barbarian wild tribes, and depressed classes and untouchables, along with small numbers of cultured, gentle natures and highly evolved souls."
-- [ Tirtha ] [ cf also Fame ]
This book shall later on prove that `Hinduism' includes the 6 orthodox schools of Brahmanism, as well as anti-Vedic religions such as Shaivism (followed by Sudras), Tantrism, Shaktism, Buddhism and Jainism. Indeed, `Hinduism' is actually Brahmanism, and the other faiths have been mistakenly classified as `Hinduism' due to Brahminist-Vaishnava propaganda. Thus, `Hinduism' includes atheism, pantheim, monotheism and all forms of religion :
"Hinduism is not a religion established by a single person. It is a growth of ideas, rituals and beliefs so comprehensive as to include anything between atheism and pantheism. (emphasis added). Having grown out of the practices and speculations of various communities that were admitted into the Hindu fold at different times, Hinduism, as it stands at present, has very few set of dogmas. A formal recognition of the Vedas as revealed wisdom is all that is required for a Hindu to be known as such. But the latitude permitted in interpreting the Vedas is so wide that the atheistic Sankhya philosophy of Kapila and the polytheism of the Puranas are both recognized as Orthodox."
-- [ Thomas, p.21 ][ cf also Fame ]
In the words of S.V. Kelkar, "There is in fact no system of doctrines, no teacher, or school of teaching, no single god that is accepted by all the Hindus." [ ERE 6:712 ] Hence, it is a natural conclusion `Hinduism' is not one religion, but a collection of several distinct religions. There are several distinct religions that are wrongly confounded under the name Hinduism (a more detailed list follows below) -

Brahmanism (6 schools considered `astik')
Vedanta
Vaishnavism
Smarta Pantheism
Samkhya
Yoga
Mimamsa
Vaiseshika
Nyaya
Sudra Shaivism
Dravidian Shaivism
Chandalla (Dalit & Adivasi) Shaivism
Kolarian Shaivism
Sramanic Religions
Buddhism
Jainism
Carvaks
Rajput Solar Religion
Tibetic Tantric Religions

It is often asserted that " Nevertheless, it is possible to discern among the myriad forms of Hinduism several common characteristics of belief in practice. Authority of the Veda and the Brahman class ... Doctrine of atman-brahman .. Ahimsa or non-injury .. Doctrines of transmigration and karma .. Concepts of istadevata and Trimurti .. Ashramas: the 4 stages of life " [ EB.20 `Hinduism' 519-520 ]. These are all false statements, as shall be shown later on. There is not one single theological doctrine in common.

2.2 Indian, or Hindu Religions
The relative importance of the various religions of India is summarised by the Manorama Yearbook, 1997 thus : " As for Hindus, almost all of thm (99%) are in Asia. 70 % Vaishnavites, 25 % Shaivites, 2 % neo-Hindus." [ Mano.334 ]. The other `nastikas' comprising Jains, Tantriks, Shaktas, etc. comprised, after centuries of persecution, hence merely 3 % of the population. The following table shows the relative importance of the `Hindu' religions, with the approximate percentage of `Hindus' following those faiths given :

Religion % Region
Vaisnavism 70 % Aryavarta
Saivism 25 % Dravidia
Shaktism < 1 % Bengal
Tantrism < 1 % Bengal
Saura < 1 % Rajastan
Jainism 0.5 % Aryavarta
Buddhism 1 % Magadha
Total 100 % India


Table: Indian Religions and Importance
The following is an accurate list of Indian religions often wrongly confounded under the term `Hinduism'. The colloquial English term is first in bold letters, with the technically correct English term in round brackets, followed by the colloquial Sanskrit terminology in italics in triangular brackets, and the technically correst Sanskrit term in square brackets at the end.

Brahmanism ( Brahmanism, `Hinduism' ) < Brahmana Dharma > [ astika brahmana dharma , sanatana dharma ]
Vedanta
Sri-Vaishnavism < "Sri-Vaishnava sampradaaya" > [ Vishisht Advaita Vedanta ]
Tengalai (Southern; Tamil)
Vengalai (Northern; Sanskrit)
Madhva Vaishnavism < "Maadhva sampradaaya" > [ Dvaita Vedanta ]
Bengali Vaishnavism < "Gaudiya-Vaishnava sampradaaya" > [ Bheda-bheda Vedanta ]
Mahapurushiya Sect Assam
ISKCON (International Society for Krishan Consciousness)
West Indian or Gujarati Vaishnavism < "Vallabha sampradaaya" > [ Shuddh Advaita ]
Smartism ( Smarta Pantheism ) < Smaarta sampradaaya > [ Advaita Vedanta ]
Yoga
Mimamsa ( Vedist Ritualism )
Samkhya ( Brahmanic Analytical Atheism )
Nyaya ( Logical Theism )
Vaisheshika ( Atomic Naturalism )
Sudra Religion ( Shaivism ) < Shaiva Dharma > [ Shaiva Dharma ]
Dravidian Shaivism Proper
Old Dravidian Shaivism ( Adishaivism ) [ adisaivar ]
Tamil Shaivism < Shaiva Siddhanta > [ saiva siddhanta dharma ]
Kannada Shaivism < Lingayat Shaivism > [ virasaiva dharma ]
Chandalla Shaivism (Dalits & Adivasis)
Gond Religion
Bhil Religion
Kol Shaivism ( Kolarian Religions ) < kol shaivar >
Munda Religion
Santal Religion
Kaul Shaktism
Others
Sramanism ( Sramanic Heterodoxies ) < nastika sramana dharam >
Buddhism [ bauddhas ]
Jainism [ jainas ]
Carvaks or Materialists [ carvakas ]
Shaktism [ shaktas ]
Right-Handed ( "Daskhinachari")
Left-Handed (" Bamachari" )
Kowls or Extreme Shaktas : cf. Kolarian Religion
Rajput Religion ( Rajput Solar Religion ) < Saura Dharma >
Tantrism ( Tibetic Tantric Religions ) < Tantra >
Bon or Old Tibetan Religion
Kashmir Shaivism
Lamaism

Shankaracharya the Smarta
According to Smarta propaganda, Shankaracharya reinstated `Hinduism' as the common religion in Bharat after supposedly defeating the Buddhists in `brilliant debates'. However, this is another false `Hindu Unity' myth of the Brahmin Nazis :
Shankaracharya was a Smarta [ srv.FAQ ], and he campaigned against the Shaivites as well as Buddhists. His opposition to the Kappalikas (a sect of Dravidian Shaivites) is swept under the carpet to create an illusion of Hindu unity and subvert Sudra Religion. Prior to Nannaya the Carvak and Kappalika schools were prevalent in Andhra-desha. Kumarila Bhatta (7 centry AD) and Sankaracharya (788-820) preached against these and tried to revive the Brahmanic Vedic dharma [ Red.625 ]. The attempts by Nannaya and his patron-king Narendra (1022-63) to revive the Vedic dharma recieved a setback due to the backlash of Virashavism [ Red.625 ], which utterly vanquished the Vaishnava fanatics.
Severe persecution of Buddhism had already diminished that religion to near non-existence long before Shankaracharya (see chapter 4). Thus, the Sunga King of Magadha offered 100 coins for the head of a Buddhists monk, and Ashoka himself killed 18000 Jains.
Smartas are virtually confined to Kerala. If Shankaracharya was so successful, why did his Smarta doctrines not spread beyond that state ? Even in Tamil Nadu it is said that a Smarta is merely a stepping-stone for Dravidian converts from Shaivism to Aryan Vaishnavism. Noted anthropologist Thurston has written about this `conversion':
" About the Vadama Smartha Tamil Brahmins, there is the following saying: "Vadamam muththi Vaishnavam", ie. "a Vadama ripens into a Vaishnava"
-- [ Thurs i.334 ]
Yet, despite all the efforts of Shankaracharya, the main religion of Vaishnavism was not attacked by him. Why ? Because his Smarta movement was merely meant to subvert the Buddhist and Sudroid religions.
The figures quoted above show that the Smartas form less than 1 % of the population, with Vaishnavas forming 70 %. Sankara only converted 1 % of the Indian population to his doctrines !
Ramaite and Krishnaite Vaishnavas
The Ramaite and Krishnaite sects of Vaishnavites are also at loggerheads. The Krishnaites are not that intolerant of Shiva, but the Ramaites allow no mention of his name. The Krishnaites also generally allow worship of Radha, which is condemned by the Ramaites. It hence follows that sectarianism is rampant within astika Vaishnava Brahmanism.
Shaktism
The Indus Valley peoples practiced two religions : the Dravidian Religion (`Shaivism') and the Mother-Goddess Cult. The latter was mainly of Mediterranean origin (cf. the Cretan snake-goddess), whilst some influence of Mon-Khmer peoples can also be traced.

It is hence evident that Hinduism consists of different religions. The fallacious concept of `One Hindu Religion' is entirely baseless and arises from ulterior motives desiring to suppress non-Vaishnava faiths.
[SIZE=7]
This may also HELP[/SIZE]

[quote=Psychosaint,Sep 25 2004, 08:14 AM]
[right][snapback]527180[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
The Different Hindu Religions
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chapter 2
Myth of One Hindu Religion Exploded
by
Hadwa Dom

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2.1 Monotheism, Polytheism and Pantheism

`Hinduism' as a term is such a confused jumble of different religions that there does not even exist a standard concept of God. It is sometimes incorrectly asserted that Hinduism is polytheism, but that is not correct. Pure Vaishnavism is monotheist, as are pure Shaktism and Shaivism. Atheism in the form of Sankhya Vedanta is also a part of Hinduism; indeed, this is one of the 6 astika (orthodox) schools of Brahmanism. Thus, Swami Dharma Anand Theertha has written :
"Frankly speaking, it is not possible to say definitely who is a Hindu and what is Hinduism. These questions have been considered again and again by eminent scholars, and so far no satisfactory answer has been given. Hinduism has within itself all types of religions such as theism, atheism, polytheism, Adwitism, Dwaitism, Saivism, Vaishnavism, and so forth. (emphasis added). It contains nature worship, ancestor worship, animal worship, idol worship, demon worship, symbol worship, self worship, and the highest god worship. Its conflicting philosophies will confound any ordinary person. From barbarious practices and dark superstitions, up to the most mystic rites and sublime philosophies, there is place for all gradations and varieties in Hinduism. Similarly, among the Hindu population are found half barbarian wild tribes, and depressed classes and untouchables, along with small numbers of cultured, gentle natures and highly evolved souls."
-- [ Tirtha ] [ cf also Fame ]
This book shall later on prove that `Hinduism' includes the 6 orthodox schools of Brahmanism, as well as anti-Vedic religions such as Shaivism (followed by Sudras), Tantrism, Shaktism, Buddhism and Jainism. Indeed, `Hinduism' is actually Brahmanism, and the other faiths have been mistakenly classified as `Hinduism' due to Brahminist-Vaishnava propaganda. Thus, `Hinduism' includes atheism, pantheim, monotheism and all forms of religion :
"Hinduism is not a religion established by a single person. It is a growth of ideas, rituals and beliefs so comprehensive as to include anything between atheism and pantheism. (emphasis added). Having grown out of the practices and speculations of various communities that were admitted into the Hindu fold at different times, Hinduism, as it stands at present, has very few set of dogmas. A formal recognition of the Vedas as revealed wisdom is all that is required for a Hindu to be known as such. But the latitude permitted in interpreting the Vedas is so wide that the atheistic Sankhya philosophy of Kapila and the polytheism of the Puranas are both recognized as Orthodox."
-- [ Thomas, p.21 ][ cf also Fame ]
In the words of S.V. Kelkar, "There is in fact no system of doctrines, no teacher, or school of teaching, no single god that is accepted by all the Hindus." [ ERE 6:712 ] Hence, it is a natural conclusion `Hinduism' is not one religion, but a collection of several distinct religions. There are several distinct religions that are wrongly confounded under the name Hinduism (a more detailed list follows below) -

Brahmanism (6 schools considered `astik')
Vedanta
Vaishnavism
Smarta Pantheism
Samkhya
Yoga
Mimamsa
Vaiseshika
Nyaya
Sudra Shaivism
Dravidian Shaivism
Chandalla (Dalit & Adivasi) Shaivism
Kolarian Shaivism
Sramanic Religions
Buddhism
Jainism
Carvaks
Rajput Solar Religion
Tibetic Tantric Religions

It is often asserted that " Nevertheless, it is possible to discern among the myriad forms of Hinduism several common characteristics of belief in practice. Authority of the Veda and the Brahman class ... Doctrine of atman-brahman .. Ahimsa or non-injury .. Doctrines of transmigration and karma .. Concepts of istadevata and Trimurti .. Ashramas: the 4 stages of life " [ EB.20 `Hinduism' 519-520 ]. These are all false statements, as shall be shown later on. There is not one single theological doctrine in common.

2.2 Indian, or Hindu Religions
The relative importance of the various religions of India is summarised by the Manorama Yearbook, 1997 thus : " As for Hindus, almost all of thm (99%) are in Asia. 70 % Vaishnavites, 25 % Shaivites, 2 % neo-Hindus." [ Mano.334 ]. The other `nastikas' comprising Jains, Tantriks, Shaktas, etc. comprised, after centuries of persecution, hence merely 3 % of the population. The following table shows the relative importance of the `Hindu' religions, with the approximate percentage of `Hindus' following those faiths given :

Religion % Region
Vaisnavism 70 % Aryavarta
Saivism 25 % Dravidia
Shaktism < 1 % Bengal
Tantrism < 1 % Bengal
Saura < 1 % Rajastan
Jainism 0.5 % Aryavarta
Buddhism 1 % Magadha
Total 100 % India
Table: Indian Religions and Importance
The following is an accurate list of Indian religions often wrongly confounded under the term `Hinduism'. The colloquial English term is first in bold letters, with the technically correct English term in round brackets, followed by the colloquial Sanskrit terminology in italics in triangular brackets, and the technically correst Sanskrit term in square brackets at the end.

Brahmanism ( Brahmanism, `Hinduism' ) < Brahmana Dharma > [ astika brahmana dharma , sanatana dharma ]
Vedanta
Sri-Vaishnavism < "Sri-Vaishnava sampradaaya" > [ Vishisht Advaita Vedanta ]
Tengalai (Southern; Tamil)
Vengalai (Northern; Sanskrit)
Madhva Vaishnavism < "Maadhva sampradaaya" > [ Dvaita Vedanta ]
Bengali Vaishnavism < "Gaudiya-Vaishnava sampradaaya" > [ Bheda-bheda Vedanta ]
Mahapurushiya Sect Assam
ISKCON (International Society for Krishan Consciousness)
West Indian or Gujarati Vaishnavism < "Vallabha sampradaaya" > [ Shuddh Advaita ]
Smartism ( Smarta Pantheism ) < Smaarta sampradaaya > [ Advaita Vedanta ]
Yoga
Mimamsa ( Vedist Ritualism )
Samkhya ( Brahmanic Analytical Atheism )
Nyaya ( Logical Theism )
Vaisheshika ( Atomic Naturalism )
Sudra Religion ( Shaivism ) < Shaiva Dharma > [ Shaiva Dharma ]
Dravidian Shaivism Proper
Old Dravidian Shaivism ( Adishaivism ) [ adisaivar ]
Tamil Shaivism < Shaiva Siddhanta > [ saiva siddhanta dharma ]
Kannada Shaivism < Lingayat Shaivism > [ virasaiva dharma ]
Chandalla Shaivism (Dalits & Adivasis)
Gond Religion
Bhil Religion
Kol Shaivism ( Kolarian Religions ) < kol shaivar >
Munda Religion
Santal Religion
Kaul Shaktism
Others
Sramanism ( Sramanic Heterodoxies ) < nastika sramana dharam >
Buddhism [ bauddhas ]
Jainism [ jainas ]
Carvaks or Materialists [ carvakas ]
Shaktism [ shaktas ]
Right-Handed ( "Daskhinachari")
Left-Handed (" Bamachari" )
Kowls or Extreme Shaktas : cf. Kolarian Religion
Rajput Religion ( Rajput Solar Religion ) < Saura Dharma >
Tantrism ( Tibetic Tantric Religions ) < Tantra >
Bon or Old Tibetan Religion
Kashmir Shaivism
Lamaism

Shankaracharya the Smarta
According to Smarta propaganda, Shankaracharya reinstated `Hinduism' as the common religion in Bharat after supposedly defeating the Buddhists in `brilliant debates'. However, this is another false `Hindu Unity' myth of the Brahmin Nazis :
Shankaracharya was a Smarta [ srv.FAQ ], and he campaigned against the Shaivites as well as Buddhists. His opposition to the Kappalikas (a sect of Dravidian Shaivites) is swept under the carpet to create an illusion of Hindu unity and subvert Sudra Religion. Prior to Nannaya the Carvak and Kappalika schools were prevalent in Andhra-desha. Kumarila Bhatta (7 centry AD) and Sankaracharya (788-820) preached against these and tried to revive the Brahmanic Vedic dharma [ Red.625 ]. The attempts by Nannaya and his patron-king Narendra (1022-63) to revive the Vedic dharma recieved a setback due to the backlash of Virashavism [ Red.625 ], which utterly vanquished the Vaishnava fanatics.
Severe persecution of Buddhism had already diminished that religion to near non-existence long before Shankaracharya (see chapter 4). Thus, the Sunga King of Magadha offered 100 coins for the head of a Buddhists monk, and Ashoka himself killed 18000 Jains.
Smartas are virtually confined to Kerala. If Shankaracharya was so successful, why did his Smarta doctrines not spread beyond that state ? Even in Tamil Nadu it is said that a Smarta is merely a stepping-stone for Dravidian converts from Shaivism to Aryan Vaishnavism. Noted anthropologist Thurston has written about this `conversion':
" About the Vadama Smartha Tamil Brahmins, there is the following saying: "Vadamam muththi Vaishnavam", ie. "a Vadama ripens into a Vaishnava"
-- [ Thurs i.334 ]
Yet, despite all the efforts of Shankaracharya, the main religion of Vaishnavism was not attacked by him. Why ? Because his Smarta movement was merely meant to subvert the Buddhist and Sudroid religions.
The figures quoted above show that the Smartas form less than 1 % of the population, with Vaishnavas forming 70 %. Sankara only converted 1 % of the Indian population to his doctrines !
Ramaite and Krishnaite Vaishnavas
The Ramaite and Krishnaite sects of Vaishnavites are also at loggerheads. The Krishnaites are not that intolerant of Shiva, but the Ramaites allow no mention of his name. The Krishnaites also generally allow worship of Radha, which is condemned by the Ramaites. It hence follows that sectarianism is rampant within astika Vaishnava Brahmanism.
Shaktism
The Indus Valley peoples practiced two religions : the Dravidian Religion (`Shaivism') and the Mother-Goddess Cult. The latter was mainly of Mediterranean origin (cf. the Cretan snake-goddess), whilst some influence of Mon-Khmer peoples can also be traced.

It is hence evident that Hinduism consists of different religions. The fallacious concept of `One Hindu Religion' is entirely baseless and arises from ulterior motives desiring to suppress non-Vaishnava faiths.

This may also HELP[/SIZE]
[right][snapback]527187[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

THIS SEEMS A MORE NEUTRAL SOURCE TO ME...........

[quote=Rudraksh,Sep 20 2004, 02:37 AM]
Hinduism (सनातन धर्म; Sanātana Dharma, roughly Perennial Faith) is generally considered to be the oldest major world religion still practised today and first among Dharma faiths. Hinduism is characterized by a diverse array of belief systems, practices and scriptures. It has its origin in ancient Vedic culture at least as far back as 2000 BCE. It is the third largest religion with approximately 1.05 billion followers worldwide, 96% of whom live in the Indian subcontinent.

Perhaps the Hindu spirit, inspired by no one man or woman in particular, is best captured in a line from the ancient Rig Veda, the "oldest religious scripture in the world." (1):

Sanskrit: एकम् सत् विप्रा: बहुधा वदन्ति
Transliteration: Ekam Sat Viprāha Bahudhā Vadanti English: "Truth is One, though the Sages know it as Many." — The Rig Veda (Book I, Hymn CLXIV, Verse 46)
Essentially, any kind of spiritual practice followed with faith, love and persistence will lead to the same ultimate state of self-realization. Thus, Hindu thought distinguishes itself by strongly encouraging tolerance for different beliefs since temporal systems cannot claim sole understanding of the one transcendental Truth.

To the Hindu, this idea has been an active force in defining the 'Eternal Dharma.' It has been for Hinduism what the infinite Divine Self of Advaita is to existence, remaining forever unchanged and self-luminous, central and pervasive, in spite of all the chaos and flux around it.
Hinduism rests on the spiritual bedrock of the Vedas, hence Veda Dharma, and their mystic issue, the Upanishads, as well as the teachings of many great Hindu gurus through the ages. Many streams of thought flow from the six Vedic/Hindu schools, Bhakti sects and Tantra Agamic schools into the one ocean of Hinduism, the first of the Dharma religions. See Schools of Hinduism.[/COLOR]
"The Eternal Way" (in Sanskrit सनातन धर्म, Sanātana Dharma), or the "Perennial Philosophy/Harmony/Faith", is the one name that has represented Hinduism for many thousands of years. According to Hindus, it speaks to the idea that certain spiritual principles hold eternally true, transcending man-made constructs, representing a pure science of consciousness. But this consciousness is not merely that of the body or mind and intellect, but of a supramental soul-state that exists within and beyond our existence, the unsullied Self of all. Religion to the Hindu is the native search for the divine within the Self, the search to find the One truth that in actuality never was lost. Truth sought with faith shall yield itself in blissful luminescence no matter the race or creed professed. Indeed, all existence, from vegetation and beasts to mankind, are subjects and objects of the eternal Dharma. This inherent faith, therefore, is also known as Arya/Noble Dharma, Veda/Knowledge Dharma, Yoga/Union Dharma, Hindu Dharma or, simply, the Dharma.
What can be said to be common to all Hindus is belief in Dharma, reincarnation, karma, and moksha (liberation) of every soul through a variety of moral, action-based, and meditative yogas. Still more fundamental principles include ahimsa (non-violence), the primacy of the Guru, the Divine Word of Aum and the power of mantras, love of Truth in many manifestations as Gods and Goddessess, and an understanding that the essential spark of the Divine (Atman/Brahman) is in every human and living being, thus allowing for many spiritual paths leading to the One Unitary Truth.
An example of the pervasiveness of this paramount truth-seeking spirituality in daily life is the bindi (seen left), which is a common marker for Hindu women. It symbolizes the need to cultivate supramental consciousness, which is achieved by opening the mystic "third eye." Hindus across the board stress meditative insight, an intuition beyond the mind and body, a trait that is often associated with the ascetic god Shiva. Men, too, will bear on their foreheads the equivalent tilak mark, usually on religious occasions, its shape often representing particular devotion to a certain main deity: a 'U' shape stands for Vishnu, a group of three lines for Shiva. It is not uncommon for some to meld both in an amalgam marker signifying Hari-Hara (Vishnu-Shiva indissoluble).
Hinduism is practiced through a variety of Yogas (spiritual practices), primarily bhakti (loving devotion), Karma Yoga (selfless service), Raja Yoga (meditational Yoga) and Jnana Yoga (Yoga of discrimination). These are described in the two principal texts of Hindu Yoga: The Bhagavad Gita and the Yoga Sutras. The Upanishads are also very important as a philosophical foundation for this rational spiritualism.

The four goals of life
Another major aspect of Hindu dharma that is common to practically all Hindus is that of purushartha, the "four goals of life". They are kama, artha, dharma and moksha. It is said that all humans seek kama (pleasure, physical or emotional) and artha (power, fame and wealth), but soon, with maturity, learn to govern these legitimate desires within a higher, pragmatic framework of dharma, or moral harmony in all. Of course, the only goal that is truly infinite, whose attainment results in absolute happiness, is moksha, or liberation, (a.k.a. Mukti, Samadhi, Nirvana, etc.) from Samsara, the cycle of life, death, and existential duality.

The four stages of life
The human life is also seen as four Ashramas ("phases" or "stages"). They are Brahmacharya, Grihasthya, Vanaprastha and Sanyasa. The first quarter of one's life, brahmacharya (literally "grazing in Brahma") is spent in celibate, sober and pure contemplation of life's secrets under a Guru, building up body and mind for the responsibilities of life. Grihastya is the householder's stage, alternatively known as samsara, in which one marries and satisfies kama and artha within a married life and professional career. Vanaprastha is gradual detachment from the material world, ostensibly giving over duties to one's sons and daughters, spending more time in contemplation of the truth, and making holy pilgrimages. Finally, in sanyasa, the individual goes off into seclusion, often envisioned as the forest, to find God through Yogic meditation and peacefully shed the body for the next life.

Views of God
Within Sanatana Dharma, or Hinduism (as it is commonly called), a variety of lesser gods are seen as aspects of the one impersonal divine ground, Brahman (not Brahma). Brahman is the ultimate, both transcendent and immanent the absolute infinite existence, the sum total of all that ever is, was, or ever shall be.

Brahman is not a God in the monotheistic since, as it is not imbued with any limiting characteristics, not even those of being and non-being, and this is reflected in the fact that in Sanskrit, the word brahman is of neuter (as opposed to masculine or feminine) gender.

Vedanta is a branch of Hindu philosophy which gives this matter a greater focus. Yoga is the primary focus in many ways of a Hindu's religious activities, being somewhere between meditation, prayer and healthful exercise.

[size=7]Some of Hinduism's adherents are monists, seeing in multiple manifestations of the one God or source of being, which is often confused by non-Hindus as being polytheism.

It is seen as one unity, with the lesser gods aspects of the one, like a single beam of light separated into colours by a prism, and seen by some as valid to worship. Some of the Hindu gods and goddesses include Devi, Vishnu, Ganesh, and Siva. Many even believe they may be able to bring worshippers closer to Moksha, end of the cycle of rebirth.

Some sects of Hinduism believe in a monotheistic ideal of Vishnu (often as Krishna), Shiva, or Devi; this view does not exclude other gods, as they are understood to be aspects of the chosen ideal (e.g. to many devotees of Krishna, Shiva is seen as having sprung from Krishna's creative force). Often, the monad Brahman is seen as the one source, with all other gods emanating therefrom. Thus, with all Hindus, there is a strong belief in all paths being true religions that lead to one God or source, whatever one chooses to call the ultimate truth.

Origins, nomenclature and society
[edit]
Historical origins and aspects of society

Relatively little is known about the origins of Hinduism, as it predates recorded history. It has been said to derive from beliefs of the Aryans, ('noble' followers of the Vedas), Dravidians, and Harappans living in the Indian subcontinent. Hinduism subsequently birthed Buddhism and Jainism, which in turn affected the development of their mother religion. Varying ideas of the origin of the Veda and understandings of whether or not the Aryans were native or foreign to Indian soil can change estimates of Hinduism's age from 4000 to 6000 years. See Early Hinduism and Aryan Invasion Theory.

Historically, the word Hindu predates the reference to Hinduism as a religion; the term is of Persian origin and first referred to people who lived on the other side (from a Persian point of view) of the Sindhu or Indus river. It was used as a signifier not only of ethnicity but of Vedic religion as far back as the 15th and 16th centuries by such figures as Guru Nanak (the founder of Sikhism). During the British Raj, the term's use was made standard, and eventually, the religion of the Vedic Hindoos was given the appelation 'Hinduism.'

In actuality, it was merely a new signifier for a culture that had been thriving for millennia before. See the Hindu (ethnicity) page for more discussion.

Current geographic distribution

The nations of India, Mauritius, and Nepal as well as the Indonesian island of Bali are predominantly Hindu; significant Hindu minorities exist in:

Bangladesh (11 million),
Myanmar (7.1 million),
Sri Lanka (2.5 million),
the United States (2.0 million)
Pakistan (3.3 million),
South Africa (1.2 million),
the United Kingdom (1.2 million),
Malaysia (1.1 million),
Canada (0.7 million),
Fiji (0.5 million),
Trinidad and Tobago (0.5 million),
Guyana (0.4 million),
the Netherlands (0.4 million),
Singapore (0.3 million)
Suriname (0.2 million).
There also exist strong Hindu communities in the countries of the ex-Soviet Union, especially in Russia and Poland. The Indonesian islands of Java, Sulawesi, Sumatra, and Borneo also have significant native Hindu populations. In its Yoga stream, Hinduism is even more widespread all over the world with 30 million practitioners in the United States alone.

Dharma in orthodox Hindu society: caste

According to one view, the Caste system shows how strongly many have felt about each person following his or her dharma, or destined path. A perversion, according to many Hindus, of dharma's true meaning, caste plays a significant role in Hindu society, [COLOR=red]although it is now losing favor and is illegal in India. [1] (http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/2001/10/19/stories/05192524.htm).

In early Vedic periods, the established Brahmins began discriminating against young candidates for priesthood based on caste. This became more ingrained over centuries until social mobility all but became a thing of the past. In spite of centuries of numerous reform movements, notably within Vedanta, bhakti yoga and Hindu streams of Tantra, and reformers, with recent stalwarts like Swami Vivekananda and Mahatma Gandhi, caste is so deeply ensconced in the Indian consciousness that even Christian converts have been known to separate church meetings for different castes. A number of Muslim communities have retained caste practices as well. What was first an injunction to living one's dharma in surrender to God became an oppressive mandate to surrender to Man. See caste for more.

Important symbolism and themes in Hinduism
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Ahimsa and the cow

A note of the element of ahimsa in Hinduism is vital to understanding the society that has arisen around some of its principles. While Jainism as it was practiced was certainly a major influence on Indian society, what with its exhortation of strict veganism and non-violence as ahimsa, the term first appeared in the Upanishads. Thus, an ingrained and externally motivated influence led to the development of a large section of Hindus who grew to embrace vegetarianism in a bid to respect higher forms of life, restricting their diet to plants and vegetables. About 30% of today's Hindu population, especially in orthodox communities in South India, in certain northerly states like Gujurat, and in many Brahmin enclaves around the subcontinent, is vegetarian. Thus, while vegetarianism is not dogma, it is recommended as a sattwic (purifying) lifestyle.

Those Hindus who do eat meat predominantly abstain from beef, some even going so far as to avoid leather products. This is most likely because the largely pastoral Vedic people and subsequent generations of Hindus throughout the centuries relied so heavily on the cow for all sorts of dairy products, tilling of fields and fuel for fertiliser that its status as a willing 'caretaker' of humanity grew to identifying it as an almost maternal figure. Thus, while most Hindus do not worship the cow, and scriptural injunctions against eating beef arose long after the Vedas had been written, it still holds an honored place in Hindu society.

It is said that Krishna is both Govinda (herder of cows) and Gopala (protector of cows), and Shiva's attendant is Nandi, the bull. With the stress on vegetarianism (which is usually followed even by meat-eating Hindus on religious days or special occasions) and the sacred nature of the cow, it is no wonder that most holy cities and areas in India have a ban on selling meat-products and there is a movement among Hindus to ban cow-slaughter not only in specific regions, but in all of India.

Hindu symbolism

Among the most revered symbols in Hinduism, two are quintessentially a part of its culture and representative of its general ethos:

Aum (ॐ) is the standard sign of Hinduism, and is prefixed and sometimes suffixed to all Hindu mantras and prayers. It contains an enormous and diverse amount of symbolism; Hindus consider its sound and vibration to be the divine representation of existence, encompassing all of manifold nature into the One eternal truth. ; see Aum for more detail.

The swastika (卐) is an Arya, or noble symbol. It stands for stability within the power of Brahma or, alternatively, of Surya, the sun. Its rotation in four directions has been used to represent many ideas, but primarily describes the four directions and their harmonious whole. It has been used in Hinduism since the early Vedic culture and is still widespread in the Indian subcontinent. Many Eastern cultures still hold it to be sacred, especially in India, in spite of the recent association with Nazism which perverted the original meaning of this universal good-luck symbol. See Swastika.

Forms of worship: murtis and mantras

Contrary to popular belief, practiced Hinduism is neither polytheistic nor strictly monotheistic. The various gods and avatars that are worshipped by Hindus are understood as different forms of One truth, sometimes seen as beyond a mere God and as a formless Divine Ground (Brahman), akin but not limited to monism, or as one monotheistic principle like Vishnu or Shiva.

Whether believing in the One source as formless (nirguna brahman, without attributes) or as a personal God (saguna Brahman, with attributes), Hindus understand that the one truth may be seen as different to different people. Hinduism encourages devotees to describe and develop a personal relationship with their chosen deity (ishta devata) in the form of a God or Goddess.

While some censuses hold worshippers of one form or another of Vishnu (known as Vaishnavs) to be at 80% and those of Shiva (called Shaivaites) and Shakti at the remaining 20%, such figures are perhaps misleading. The vast majority of Hindus worship many gods as varicolored forms of the same prism of Truth. Among the most popular are Vishnu (as Krishna or Rama), Shiva, Devi (the Mother as many female deities, such as Lakshmi, Saraswati, Kali and Durga), Ganesha, Skanda and Hanuman.

Worship of the said deities is often done through the aid of pictures or icons (murti) which are said not to be God themselves but conduits for the devotee's consciousness, markers for the human soul that signify the ineffable and illimitable nature of the love and grandeur of God. They are symbols of the greater principle, representing and are never presumed to be the concept or entity itself. Thus, Hindu image worship is a form of iconolatry, in which the symbols are venerated as putative sigils of divinity, as opposed to idolatry, a charge often levied (erroneously) at Hindus.

Mantra

Reciting mantras is a fundamental practice that both originated and now continues in Hinduism. Much of mantra yoga, as it is called, is done through japa (repetition). Mantras are said, through their meaning, sound, and chanting style, to help meditational focus for the sadhaka (practitioner). They can also be used to aid in expression of love for the deity, another facet of Bhakti yoga akin to the understanding of the murti. They often give courage in exigent times and serve to help 'invoke' one's inner spiritual strength. Indeed, Mahatma Gandhi's dying words were a two-word mantra to the Lord Rama: "Hai Ram!" (pronounced Hey Ram).

The most representative of all the Hindu mantras is the famed Gayatri Mantra:

ॐ भूर्भुवस्व: | तत् सवितूर्वरेण्यम् | भर्गो देवस्य धीमहि | धियो यो न: प्रचोदयात्
Aum bhūrbhuvasvaH | tat savitūrvareṇyam | bhargo devasya dhīmahi | dhiyo yo naH pracodayāt
(/H/ stands for the voiceless aspirate called 'visarga'.)

A good explanation of this mantra can be found here: [2] (http://www.indiaoz.com.au/hinduism/prayer/gayatri_mantra.shtml). It is considered one of the most universal of all Hindu mantras, and invokes the universal Brahman as the principle of knowledge and the illumination of the primordial Sun, only in its feminine aspect. Many Hindus till today, in a tradition that has continued unbroken for at least 5,000 years, perform morning ablutions at the bank of a sacred river (especially the Ganga/Ganges). Known as a universal mantra, it is revered as being the most condensed form of Divine Knowledge (Veda). Its presiding principle, Ma (Mother) Gayatri, is also known as Veda Mata (Mother of the Vedas) and is strongly associated with the Goddess of Learning and Illumination, Saraswati.

The chief aim of the Vedic religion is to achieve moksha, or liberation, through constant dedication to Satya (Truth) and eventual realization of the Atman (Universal Soul). Whether this is achieved through meditation or pure love, this universal goal is achievable by all. But it should be noted that Hinduism is a very practical faith, and is embodied in every aspect of life. It believes equally in the temporal as in the infinite, only it encourages perspective. The great rishis (Hindu sages) have termed the samsaric (one who lives in samsara, i.e. the temporal or earthly plane) who succeeds in living an honest, loving and dharmic life a jivanmukta (living free soul). Hinduism's fundamental truth is best expressed in the Upanishadic dictum, Tat Twam Asi (Thou Art That), and the ultimate aspiration as follows:

Aum Asato ma sad gamaya, tamaso ma jyotir gamaya, mrityor ma aamritaam gamaya
"Aum Lead me from ignorance to truth, from darkness to light, from death to immortality."
For more details, see Mantra.

[edit]
Hindu scriptures

Hindu scripture is overwhelmingly written in Sanskrit. Indeed, much of the morphology and linguistic philosophy inherent in the learning of Sanskrit is inextricably linked to study of the Vedas and relevant Hindu texts. Hindu texts are typically seen to revolve around many levels of reading, namely gross/physical, subtle and supramental. This allows for many levels of understanding as well, implying that the truth of the texts can only be realized with the spiritual advancement of the reader. It is divided into two categories: Shruti- that which is heard (i.e. revelation) and Smriti- that which is remembered (i.e. tradition, not revelation).

[edit]
Shruti

The Vedas are considered scripture by all Hindus. While the overwhelming majority of Hindus may never read the Vedas, the reverence for the more abstract notion of eternal knowledge (Veda means knowledge) is etched deep into the hearts of all those who follow Veda Dharma. Classed with the Vedas (which specifically refer to the Rig/Rg, Yajur, Sama and Atharva Vedas) are their famous commentaries, the Upanishads. While the early Vedas lay the foundation for subsequent Hindu ritual, cosmology and developing philosophy, the Upanishads built the edifice of mystic insight and abhorrence for ritual at the expense of spiritual insight. Forming the core of the Vedanta (End of Vedas), they streamline the excessive litany of praise to Vedic gods and capture the essence of the Rig Vedic dictum "Truth Is One." They set Hindu philosophy apart with its embrace of a single transcendent and yet immanent force that is native to each man's soul, an identification of micro- and macrocosm as One. It can be said that while early Hinduism is most reliant on the four Vedas, Classical Hinduism, from the Yoga and Vedanta to Tantra and Bhakti streams, was molded around the Upanishads.

[edit]
Bhagavad Gita

The Bhagavad Gita occupies a special position in the hearts of most Hindus as a keystone yoga upanishad whose eternal words perhaps are the most representative of all Hindu thought, each shloka 'directly' from the mouth of the Lord Krishna. While technically it is considered Smriti, it has singularly achieved nearly unquestioned status as Shruti, or revealed, and is thus the most definitive single Hindu text, read by millions of bhaktas (devotees) and yogis on a largely daily basis throughout the Sanatana Dharmic world. See Bhagavad Gita to explore this text.

[edit]
Smriti

The post-Vedic Hindu scriptures form the latter category, the most notable of which are the Mahabharata and the Ramayana, major epics considered scripture by most followers of Sanatana Dharma, their stories arguably familiar to the vast majoriy of Hindus living in the Indian subcontinent, if not abroad. Other texts considered important by today's Hindus include the Devi Mahatmya, an ode to Devi, the Divine Mother, and the Yoga Sutras, a key meditative yoga text of Shri Patanjali. There are also a number of revered Hindu Tantras and Sutras that command the respect of various Hindu sects of different persuasion, some including the Mahanirvana Tantra, Tirumantiram and Shiva Sutras.

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism
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What kind of a stupid justification is that? Seems to me you are disappointed that Muslims are not killed everyday in India.
So, by your account if I kill your loved one, I should get away because I don't kill people everyday and that was the only sin I committed in my entire life. What a stupid, sick and pathetic logic!!!!!!!
Shame on you ..... but then again, you are one of those Indian Hindus ....

what are you talking about................did you read the whole thread........my postings before.

Excuse me I have at least a couple of dozen of muslim friends, both in Bombay and Bangalore, whom I consider close. Try talking to an Indian Muslim.......he/she would be as pissed off at Pakistanis trying to project it as if riots happen everyday in India...........and that is precisely what I was trying to point out.

You obviously didn't get it!

She usualy doesnt understand when it comes to the facts.

so spare her. and hale her support for burning muslims alive.. O sorry i forgot that those muslims burning are fake too

Rudrukhs post reminds me of a fundemental accounting principle: disclosure... in lay mans terms you disclose all your accounting policies in the financial statements so that the reader has a better understanding of the figures.. However, one cannot apply a wrong accounting policy and get away with it ,.. because one has disclosed it as part of the accounting policies.

Physco may have got those pcis from an Indian media site.. but just because they are disclosed .. does it make any better... kill them and disclose them !!! doesn't happen every day in India but does happen every few years..... kill them in thousands but don't do it every day just once in a while... great justification...

no no its ok to kill them once in while during 2 or 3 years, because india is a democracy and u know that good ole rule, slowly but surly.

$$$

I suppose being a secular Hindu is not on this forum............You just are so much in love with the extremist Hindu.

I suppose I was being foolish in trying to clear misconceptions based on distance......it is much easier abusing each other. So, I am not going to be a defender of secularism any longer.

Why waste my energy trying.............when the impressions are already set in stone!

Now lets see....

psychooo ... i think what the lady is trying to say is that frequency is not good enough... we should have things like that on daily basis.... only then will she and her hindu pandits will be satisfied...

psycho muna ... i already ignore her big time...

she is so full of it

Well

It was not only disagusting but also Govt. Sponsered riots.

Indian da democratics..



BTW

Hinduism is not a religion.Keep it in mind it is just a collection of those stupid things...

this is getting so difficult to digest now..
could we plz quit this particular issue and move on for now ..
pray for the dead..
may ALlah have mercy on their souls and grant them a neat place in heaven..
shan ,
think about it plz..
mitti pao ji..plz.

damn......

Rudraksh:
What disgusts me most about the riots is not only the blatant killings--and they were probably worse and more blatant that what the serbs did in Srbrenica in the 90s, if that can be possible--but the fact that Modi won the next elections by a land-slide and that very few, if any have been really punished, and that Indians are the least humble people in the world while parroting the "biggest democracy" mantra everyday in light of such periodic mini-holocausts. Heck, even the Nazi SS were a bit more polished then the mobs on the streets of Ahmedabad.

How can media not expose a holocaust going on in broad day light for days? Even in a closed society like Burma there would be news--big news. And Indian media is not a bad media, by the way. Nor is Indian society as closed as Burma's.

As we discuss these on the internet, the champion of the famous Rath Yatra and his sacred followers are already planning the next come-back strategy which will inevitably involve "re-building" the Ram Janambhoomi--and killing more Muslims. Oh well, that would be just one of those periodic episodes that don't happen every day. Life goes on. Your secured Muslim friends in Bangalore--the Indian silicon valley--will find no reason to think twice about such events. After all, this doesn't happen everyday.

Not that I am not paying glowing tributes to Pakistan either. It's just that you Indians can so frequently brag in face of such things is almost human--it is beyond disgust to me.

But I do appreciate your sharing information about Hinduism. I wish I can find time to study it more and to check out one of the temples here in the States if I am allowed inside?

RUDRAKSH....

Why dont you, as a HINDU, stick to ###### DRINKING, YOUR WORSHIP OF A THOUSAND GODS (or more) INCEST (well known fact, India has the highest Incest rate in the world, as discussed on this site before and you can even search for" incest and india" at www.bbc.co.uk. not to mention your pretty stupidly amazing caste system you have in india where Patels rule and everyone else is treated like SHIT. once u have addressed all those issues, then maybe, JUST maybe, we can discuss how India is so "forward" and "modern".

Until then, go drink ######, and when u got some time, ###### ur sis (thats what ur fellow indians are doing en masse, so you might aswell join them)

Yes, most of the kids lying burnt in that group are Muslims. There might be some dalits too along with that, but who knows ??

I hate India when I think of such things, that was a genocide fair & simple and there is no question about that.

The RSS and its sister organizations planned out that genocide to a 'Tee'.

My question is if the BJP was so confident about the fact that what happened at Godhra or wherever was factually true then they should have conducted a most comprehensive FORENSIC ANALYSIS which was NOT DONE.

Why was FORENSIC ANALYSIS done away with if there was no hanky-panky ?? Why did the Gujarat govt prevent the state police from conducting the MOST THOROUGH forensic analysis ??

The Prime Minister Mr. Veggiepie after sitting on his ar$e all through the riots did not condemn it even once...and was defeaningly quiet all through which showed his darkest & evil side.

Even when a christian missionary Graham Staines was burnt Mr. Veggiepie came out with an explanation that, "There should be a debate".....I mean I ask the people on this forum can you imagine if after 9/11 George. W. Bush comes out with the explanation when minorities are being attacked.

When Sikhs were attacked in Texas and Bush would have come out with the argument that 'THERE SHOULD BE A DEBATE'.....I am sure that everyone in the world would have denounce him and his a$$ for perpetuity. But nothing like that happened to Veggiepie, he got away Fair & Square with that blatant hypocrisy.

And as far as the question goes of people in this forum condemning atrocities committed in other countries then I wish to remind them that their LANGUAGE & their ATTITUDES towards others suggest that they would perform no better. Plz stop being moralistic because the entire region is full of animals in human clothing.

Pearl's victim has recently seen justice and so have many, many others at the hand of Pakistan's forces.

Iraq is a dangerous place for all including Muslims--even Pakistanis have been brutally murdered. More Muslims have been brutally killed than non-Muslims in Iraq, thus to say that Muslims are out killing non-Muslims in Iraq is a deceptive argument. Picking out Western names from the Iraqi deaths does not support your case at all.

Sept. 11 happened not because some large group of Muslims went on a killing frenzy for days in broad-day light, aided (yes, aided) but a local administration right up to the highest level of authority. It happened because a handful of terrorists did a sneak attack on Americans. Comparing this acts of terrorists on Sept. 11 to what was done in Gujarat in 2002 is a hogwash!

Sure, the Godhra incident was a great trajedy. But I am sure you have heard of alternate viewpoints, admiringly, by Indian media itself of the involvement of the Sangh Pravivar in that? It would have been suicidal for Muslims to torch the train car considering they were in a Gujarat ruled by Modi.

Can you explain that how in a "democracy" persons like Modi not only stay in power but also come back to win by a landslide despite the riots (I think it was BECAUSE of the riots)? Only in dictatorial and brutal societies such things are allowed.

Riding the current international bandwagon of anti-Islamism is surely helping you in some ways. But it does not hide the brutal nature of your society to those who can read behind lines and who have ears behind their ears. Basically, India has no friends to speak of. However poor Pakistan may be, for whatever reasons, Pakistan does have some genuine friends in the world who have helped out in past and may help again in future.

Again, I am not saying Pakistan is perfect. It is also a cruel society. But you don't see Pakistan bragging about their country either.

A little humility will suit many Indians better.

First of all I don't know why my post was deleted.

And to reply to your post, well, Modi won the elections that followed the riots because Gujarat at that time was deeply polarised religously. People voted for Modi coz a vote for anyone else would've meant a victory for the Muslims, and that was something the Hindu majority didn't want. But saneness does eventually prevail in a genuine democracy. Look what happened in the Lok Sabha elections this year- BJP managed 11 seats, thats less than 50% of the total seats in Gujarat. And it was BJP's worst show in that state for quite a long time.

No Indian can be proud of the Gujarat riots. Its only the BJP which boasted about it, only later to say that Gujarat was the reason they weren't voted back to power. If India was really a "Hindu extremist nation" like you claim, then BJP would've still been ruling.

India is a democratic secular nation, and we do brag about it. A few incidents don't take away everything from us. The are 135 million Muslims in India. If they all were disgruntled like you make them appear, India would've broken up long ago.

PifP:
You kid yourself if you believe that BJP lost because of the riots. It was pure economics: The poor felt left out and they had their voice heard during the elections. I DO give this to the Indian democracy: Change of guard through ballots. I DO believe that Indians are not all blood-thirsty Hindu fanatics.

But, bragging? Ahh, that is something uncalled for. You have to have very low criteria of democracy to really brag about. Perhaps satisfaction is more like you should feel about Indian democracy. In no "genuine democracy" the 2002 riots could have happened and tolerated to the level it has been in India.

You are lucky that there is a wave of anti-Islamism gripping the world. Otherwise, in 2002, while the world was so connected, India's image would have suffered greatly.

About Muslims breaking away, well, you have one Muslim majority State and it is not stable, to say the least. You have at least one Christian majority state in the Northeast which is under strife. You have a state where sikhs barely form 50% of population and they revolted.

If the Bangladeshi immigration rumours to the Northeast are true, do you wish to bet that they won't clain a country when they form a majority there?

India is secular because it has to. Pushing 134+ milliion Muslims will ensure that Muslims will start migrating to border areas around Bangladesh/Pakistan/wherever and assert themselves as an entity. Right now, they just can't. Periodic pogroms ensure this.

Economics did play an important role in the elections, but other issues like the riots did have a significant influence. The opposition did a very good job in exploiting the grave BJP dug for itself.

BJP's "India Shining" campaign focussed on the developments in the urban centers. The television commercials which were a part of the campaign showed people talking on their mobile phones, newly constructed expressways, insurance schemes, lower lending rates for home loans etc. all catering to the Middle class Indian voter. All these developments did take palce, and the people in the large cities, especially the metros were expected to vote for the BJP. But BJP failed in all the metros. And this proves the economic policies weren't the only deciding factor.

Gujarat riot was the failure of the administration of a single province, and not of the Indian democracy. The violence never escalated beyond Gujarat. BJP benefited from the polarised atmosphere, but had to loose when things calmed down. Fact is we've moved on after the riots.

abeh panchode no one ever verified this thing of 56 hindus being burned as being done by muslims, is there shitt inside your guju head? look at how indians ride their trains and tell me how the hell they were killed by others, some idiot onboard did something

I think fanatism is bad. Unfortunately everywhere. But the Indian government has been lead by fanatic people for a long period... No wonder the muslim present the underside of the economic ladder...

All i know there should be Tit for Tat. Thats the rule made by Allah. Some body kill ur kids u must kill their kids. Some body burn ue home u should burn theirs. So should fry some Hindus in Pakistan so Indians can understand if they will do it there we will do it here. To the Hell with peace and political prospirity.

Shame no one helped them due to then not being Pakistani...

Allaahumansur al muslimee fee kulle makaan :( ameen