I don't understand this last picture, anyone know about this ??

Photos by Al-Jauhara Al-Mohammed's[/B]

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SaudiArabian, do you anything about this render below? I hope this is not going to happen.. This render is a lot different from above pics render. Too many ugly towers...

They all look cool but unfortunately in this process the surrounding historical heritage has been lost...
The only winners are the foreign construction companies and Saudi royalty that has large shares in the corporations.
Isn't the purpose of Hadj a self denial, simplicity, sacrifice of comfort and subjugation ...
Well anyway folks no need to jump on me - I was just wondering if this ultimate experience of faith is being replaced by a feeling of going to a tourist attraction instead..

i was going to put a thread on this today but you were ahead
i don't know about the last pic of the 1st post. i saw it for the 1st time here and i don't think its real because Safa and Marwah don't appear in it.

as for the last pic , i don't know which project is this but it will be amazing and excellent if its real. but the pic is incomplete and doesn't include the giant project called "Jabal Omar"


what foreign construction companies ???

its the Bin Laden group which runs all this in addition to other businessmen like Al-Faqeeh and Al-Rajhi and stockholders in the stockmarket (people like me) , i never heard of any single profiteer from these projects... well , unless he buys some of Jabal Omar shares through tadawul.

It looks like the rectangle within the circle is the safa marwa in the drawing.

It is an utter shame that so much of the heritage of Makkah will be lost in this. It is Islamic history, you would never see this occur in Jerusalem or the vatican city.

It is very important that we allow people access and have the facilties to meet demand for the hajj, but i feel that could have been met by expanding outer Makkah rather than the centre.

I do like the project mashallah but that too many towers put me off..

project called "Jabal Omar"

Fair enough old sites are being destroyed but after all what shall we do with all the pilgirms that comes to Mecca?

Its Allah Al-mightlys house and we have to cater for all the muslims and sooner or latter they will have to accomodate all the people.

Yeah its getting bit fake with all the buildings but when one is there for Hajj fake buildings shouldnt be a pre-text for a distraction from Gods house! No matter what is around you, you are there for Hajj and to be infront of Allah

I like these pictures alot without the tall buildings in background, It involves little bit walking but alot of open space.



Use of rail and shuttle is a good idea, that way tall Hotels can be a distant away from Masjid and yet people can reach Masjid easily. Also this idea of walking elevator is good as well for elderly and disabled, it would be better if they are enclosed somehow.

This is an amazing project, the Saudi's have out done themselves. All that glistening marble would create a purist allure around the Kaba, and would truly enchant the modern world. Bravo !

As for those who talk about the removal of the past, making way for the new, then, was ever Islam's universialty confined within the crumbling walls of old relics, indeed even the Kaba is less important than the blood of a Muslim.

what heritage and historic sites ?? the only historic sites there worth mentioning are the Kaabah and the two hills of Safa and marwa.

i've been to Makkah many times. i get shocked and dissapointed when someone points to weird looking useless rock called (Devils prison) or an Ottoman imperialist castle far from the holy mosque and say its "heritage" and shouldn't be removed to build a hotel on it to serve Muslims. :(

do you guys imagine how many Muslims curse KSA everytime they get denied hajj visa ? do you realize why KSA denied them the visas ?

its because of the capacity. if KSA opens the door wide open then Makkah will have tens of millions at the same time and alot of people will die and wouldn't even find a place to sleep because all hotels are full and more worst those hotels will increase their prices to use the situation.

besides these projects will create alot of jobs and increase the economic importance of the Holy city and serve KSA's economy.

Wasnt the Prophets (pbuh) house or Khadijas (as) house destroyed

The Prophet's (pbuh) house in Mecca was demolished by the Pagan Meccans.

The Prophet (saw) lived in Medinah, and after the Invasion of Mecca, he returned to Medinah.
His home is still intact, the location is not disclosed (within the mosque itself).

The distance between the the Kabaa and the new towers makes me wonder whether such construticon is purely built to accomodate more people or is it to offer an exceptional view for those who have big pockets? Obviously the later makes more sense and so i feel really sad that such shallowness, that is the material world in which we live today, has anchored to our holy and beloved site. The kabaa is so sacred that we muslim, even living thousand of miles away, don't dare to point our sole to this direction yet now people would be walking obove it.

Personally, I have always been against building all those skyscrapers around Kabba...

The actual expansion of the Masjid Kabbah & the facilities (i.e roads, underpasses etc)... I have vied as necessary...


But the way you put it.... I never thought of it that way! I must say I agree...
Personally, I have always been against building all those skyscrapers around Kabba...

Well it is NOT against to Islam to put skyscrapers around the Kabba... But again it has many advantages...

I do agree.... they should put the skyscrapers half a mile away from a kabba.

Have any of you guys even been to Mecca? These developments are extremely necessary to accommodate the pilgrims that come from all over the world. Last count for the Hajj was 4 million people. Think about it? Thats like an entire country in single mosque. I dont see anything wrong with the towers. As with any booming city you have to build upwards. I'm thankful the Saudis have developed the city so much in the past 20 years and with entirely their own cash. People are complaining as if their own tax dollars are being spent.

Brother, I don't know why are you defending yourself but please get into reality. They is no need to be ashamed as its not your fault.

Have you read the history about Ottoman Empire? Ottoman Empire done a lot of thing in Mecca and Madina.

Most of these buildings don't exists anymore who where destroyed by wahabbi fanatics because of their hate against the Ottomans and the Turks, also they didn't only destroy Ottoman buildings also some important "Turbeh's" such as graves of Hatija the first wife of prophet Muhammed pbuh and some other important peoples graves...

From Ottoman empire there left some surrounding buildings in Kabah and a train-station...

Sultan II Abdülhamit died from a hartatack when he heard that WWI whas begon (he whasnt sultan at that time)...

wahabbi hate anything Ottoman have built. Everybody know this brother.

I agree with you brother.

They also spending $1.2 billion for new "Jamarat Bridge" with latest technology! :)

My Faith is "Allah is Taking a good care of Kabbah it self" if there is any thing which will against the stature of Kabbah it will be taken care by the nature. Shez is correct. Holy land gets crowded during Hajj & Ramadan and pilgrims needed to be accommodated. They are doing a fine and timely job.

firstly , wahhabism are ibadhis founded in North Africa 1200 years ago. however , our enemies (mostly Ottomans and British) in the past wanted to isolate the Sunni Saudi state by calling it with that term to fool the naive Muslims.

as for Ottoman Empire yes we know its history how it was a great empire in the beginning in its golden era .. till it turned to some sort of heretical weak empire where they dance circiling themselves in the mosques instead of praying while they put huge taxes on people of Arabian peninsulla without giving them anything in return no health no education no nothing .. the Arabian peninsulla became in the 2nd phase of Jahiliya. people here returned to worship idols and trees and graves and all that because of the Ottoman Imperialist policies.

the Ottomans betrayed every treaty when they invaded and destroyed the 1st Saudi state. they killed many people and imposed a siege on Diriyah for many months untill we ran out of ammo.

the Imam said he will surrender and give himself only if they leave the city and its people alone and the Ottoman army accepted the deal but guess what ? .. after Imam Abdullah surrendered himself , the Ottoman army destroyed the city , massacred many of its people and took all the Saud family hostages.

today the Diriyah wreckage and fallen structures in the north west of Riyadh city remain as historical sign of the era of the Ottoman imperialism in the Arabian peninsulla.

we never desecrate any grave. if there is some sort of temple above it inviting people to worship the person in that grave then the structure will be removed but the graves will be kept. all graves in Saudi Arabia are the same , there is no difference between a grave of a king , a citizen , a sahabi or anyone else exept for Prophet Muhammad and his two companions Abu Bakr and Omar bin Al-Khattab.

the train station became useless because it was destroyed during wars and not economicaly viable. now there are plans for wide range of trainstations .. visit the Saudi railways website to see their plans for future.

hmmmmm .....

New render is out:

http://www.asharqalawsat.com/details.asp?s...04&feature=


SaudiArabian, do you know anything about this? what is that two new cube??

if you check the 4th picture in your 1st post you'll find that they are the same :)
i guess its another design for what King Abdullah's expansion might look like

i don't know what are those two structures in the middle are supposed to be

You also have to consider the fact that Mecca is a true international hub as pilgrims from practically all over the world go there throughout the year. Historically it has been a centre for commerce, diffusion of ideas, flow of technology, etc...it is also a necessary trip to take up for financially able Muslims. I agree with the notion that upward construction is necessary and IMO it is an opportunity for Muslim engineers and designers to make some remarkable modern architectural achievements.

Mark my words, in the near future Mecca & Madina will be key urban centres in the world.

While more developments are made in Makka, what is distressing is that developers are rushing to build luxury apartments, in other word, they are trying to profit as much as possible from Haj/Umra, while Islam isnt against business, does Islam encourage ruthless modern capitalism when it comes to Haj?

In other words, would we rather have 10 rich pilgrims rather than 10 middle income pilgrims? In just one year, the cost of Haj has doubled from approximately 7000 US$ to 15000$, in just one year from a country that borders Saudi Arabia!

This is Prophet ( SAW ) house, which they have turned into library in Makkah.

I think thats a myth, how can we prove that and where is your source to say that.

We had a lecture/presentation from someone from Saudi Arabia who came to holland, he has high ranking contacts, he showed us alot of dia's.

Here in the dia's you could see what their building plans were, however they destroyed the house of Abu Bakr en other verrrrry important heritages.

When the professor who showed us EXACTLY where important peoples graves were and houses, and what happend to them now.

He asked why they built these underground washing facilities at exactly the location of a sahaba's house close to Al-Haram. The authoraties answered it was the house of Abu Lahab.

But the professor said he could easily prove that it wasn't, he was fighting the authoraties building plans for some years now, creating awareness around the world.

He told the authoraties that Abu Lahabs house was that Palace on the mountain close to Al-Haram. With the palace he means the house of the king.

When he asked why they destroyed many graves and other heritage buildings, they said because people will do shirk if we don't destroy it.

btw wasn't Prophet (S.A.W) and his companions were common persons just like us? so why there is a difference in graves?

The prophet's (saw) house is now within the compound of the Mosque (a known fact).
Today the mosque is larger than what was Medina then, how can the house move outside the the-then municipality of Madinah?
Nahi sumjha? The house was few qadams from the mosque, then how is it possible that the house has moved many qadams into downtown Medinah today?

The steps suggest that the library is on a more elevated area than the mosque, meaning a hilly area of those days.
The prophet had a date palm growing outside his house, never heard of trees growing and bearing fruit on hills.

If that was in-fact the house, then it would have been in mud, and the architects would be commanded to restore the original heritage.
If what you claim is true, people would be kissing the wall and there wouldn't be any place to walk around the library.

saudiarabian waiting for ur reply....

i don't know what do you mean by "common persons just like us"


their graves are same as everyone else here (soil) the difference is that their grave is covered with a green dome (i don't know when it was built , maybe the Ottomans) and surrounded by the reconstructed walls of one of the rooms which used to belong to the house of Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him.

is it true the leaders wanted to remove the green dome when the "wahabis" came to power

it is sad part of Saudi politics, that they have been used to divide the muslims.
demolition of graves in Jannatul Baqi is one of big mistakes they made..but I strongly feel that it was originally British or American idea...being faitful friends, they found it inline with their ideology.Mullahs get manipulated very easily, due to lack of vision.

This is true, i went there and shoot this picture.. if any one of you go to makkah, you can locate this place by eixiting from safa marwa gate and ask any local saudi or any guide, they will help you and give you more information..

QUOTE(Hadi @ Sep 1 2008, 10:48 AM)
btw wasn't Prophet (S.A.W) and his companions were common persons just like us?

don't know what do you mean by "common persons just like us"


QUOTE(Hadi @ Sep 1 2008, 10:48 AM)
so why there is a difference in graves?

their graves are same as everyone else here (soil) the difference is that their grave is covered with a green dome (i don't know when it was built , maybe the Ottomans) and surrounded by the reconstructed walls of one of the rooms which used to belong to the house of Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him.

actually i was asking that when saudi govt has demolished shrines in Janat Al Baqih (Madina) in 1925 to stop people from doing shirk so what is the reason behind this not to demolish green dome,don't ur govt thinks that this will let people to do shirk too?

as for common person i meant all humans are equal there is nothing to do with their rank,race.religion even no matter if the person is the Hujjats of ALLAH (swt) like Messengers,Prophets and Imams,don't u think Prophet (S.A.W) and His Two other comapanions who are burried beside him also need the same treatment as ur govt give to others?

A Demonstration that the Wahhabis are Khawarij


taken from the book 'Ihya al-Maqbur' pages 59-60.
by the late Muhaddith of the Age,
Imam Abu'l-Fayd Ahmad ibn Abi Abdallah al-Siddiq al-Ghimmari,
author of 143 books.



bismillahi'rrahmani'rrahim
As for the Qarniyyun, their land has not been blessed by Allah with any wali or salih since the beginning of Islam down to the present day. Instead, he only gave it the Qarn al-Shaytan ['the Devil's Horn'], whose followers were the Khawarij of the thirteenth and subsequent Islamic centuries. So fear God, and do not be like he who is beguiled by them, and supports their corrupt sect and worthless opinion, and their state of misguidance which was explicitly described by the Prophet (upon whom be blessings and peace), who characterised them as the 'Dogs of the Fire' [kilab al-nar], and informed us that they are the 'worst of all who dwell beneath the sky', and that they 'swerve from the religion as an arrow swerves away from its target,' and that they mouth among the best of sayings in the form of their prattlings about Tawhid, and implementing the Sunna, and combating bid'as - and yet, by Allah, they are drowning in bid'a; in fact, there is no bid'a worse than theirs, which causes them to 'swerve from the religion as an arrow swerves away from its target', in spite of their superficial efforts in worship and adherence to the religion. It is as the Prophet (upon whom be blessings and peace) declared: 'one of you would despise the prayer he says among them, and the fasting he completes with them; they recite Qur'an but it goes no further than their collarbones.'

It is for this reason that he refrained (upon him be blessings and peace) from making du'a for Najd in the way that he had prayed for the Yemen and for Syria, for he said: 'Allahumma bless us in our Yemen; bless us in our Syria' - and they said, 'And in our Najd, o Messenger of Allah?' (upon him be blessings and peace), but he repeated his prayer for the Yemen and for Syria; and they repeated their utterance; until he said, the second or the third time round, in order to explain why he would not pray for Najd:

'That is the place of earthquakes, and fitnas, and from it the Devil's Horn shall rise.' [Narrated by Bukhari.] And nothing has emerged from there to bring about earthquakes and fitnas in the religion like Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab, who was astray and led others astray. Hence he was the Devil's Horn foretold by the Messenger (upon him be blessings and peace), and he abstained from offering prayer for Najd because of him, and because of the fitnas which would flow from his demonic da'wa. Whoever adheres to that da'wa has committed unambiguous kufr, and is destined for apostasy and 'swerving from the religion', as is visible in the case of the other mulhids [heretical unbelievers] of the age who are notorious for their ilhad, for in every case they began by holding fast to the sect of the Devil's Horn, as is well-known to scholars of experience and insight.


http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/misc/wahhabi.htm

A lot of the above is mere hate filled rhetoric.
Wahabis or Salafis have done some good things and some bad things.

What is telling though is that there is a group of people, who you will find in every other conflict between Muslims and non-Muslims to be supporting the non-Muslims, or at very least undermining the Muslims....

My question to you would be this: -

before the advent of "Wahabism" in modern day Saudi Arabia, what was the prevailing school of Islamic Law that ran in Hijaz? To put it simply, what was before Wahabism?

Only shia extremist coul have written this ...

well although i don't approve of Wahabism, but what I have learnt is that before Wahabism there was open bid'aah going on to the extent of shirk. thats what we know.

For your information, its not a Shia who has written that.

Could you elaborate please? what kind of bid'ah?

same stupidity, if you don't agree with the other sect call it kafir/khwarij.... Someone should stop these fatwa factories...

i just came from makkah one hour b4 and i was amazed at expansion work of holly kabbah its amazing and we must appreciate saudis for providing such facilities to pilgrims, you can not serve pilgrims better than that but expansion is really massive i think equal to present area of haram sharif.

regards